CheeringCJ

Slider foods

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I never really understood when ppl here talked about slider foods. I knew what kinds of foods they were but i didn’t quite get it.  So i was just reading a great article w/ a lot of insight . It really struck home bc i have been snacking on my son’s oysters crackers lately (really just little circle saltines) they aren’t a ton of calories and not a ton of flavor but they dont bother me so i can eat them more than i should.  Then I read this...gulp!  It is like a light went on and i thought ”yikes *I* am eating slider foods w/ these stupid tiny crackers!!!”  Plus lately i have been wondering if i still need to be eating so much protein like i did post op.  I was told post op that. I needed it to heal and wondered if I still needed sooo much.    I read that a lot of protein is hard on your body (not in relation to WLS just in general).  But this explained it enough to make me say “oh, I GET it!”.  Maybe it will be helpful to someone here to also didn’t get it before.....

 

Understanding Slider Foods
The most commonly consumed slider foods include pretzels, crackers (saltines, graham, Ritz, etc.) filled cracker snacks such as Ritz Bits, popcorn, cheese snacks (Cheetos) or cheese crackers, tortilla chips with salsa, potato chips, sugar-free cookies, cakes, and candy. You will notice these slider foods are often salty and cause dry mouth so they must be ingested with liquid to be palatable. This is how they become slider foods. They are also, most often, void of nutritional value. 


For weight loss surgery patients the process of digestion is different than those who have not undergone gastric surgery. When slider foods are consumed they go into the stomach pouch and exit directly into the jejunum where the simple carbohydrate slurry is quickly absorbed and stored by the body. There is little thermic effect in the digestion of simple carbohydrates like there is in the digestion of protein so little metabolic energy is expended. In most cases patients in the phase of weight loss who eat slider foods will experience a weight loss plateau and possibly the setback of weight gain. And sadly, they will begin to believe their surgical stomach pouch is not functioning properly because they never feel fullness or restriction like they experience when eating protein.

The very nature of the surgical gastric pouch is to cause feelings of tightness or restriction when one has eaten enough food. However, when soft simple carbohydrates are eaten this tightness or restriction does not result and one can continue to eat, unmeasured, copious amounts of non-nutritional food without ever feeling uncomfortable.

Many patients turn to slider foods for this very reason. They do not like the discomfort that results when the pouch is full from eating a measured portion of lean animal or dairy protein without liquids. Yet it is this very restriction that is the desired result of the surgery. The discomfort is intended to signal the cessation of eating. Remembering the "Protein First" rule is crucial to weight management with bariatric surgery.

Gastric bypass, gastric banding (lap-band) and gastric sleeve patients are instructed to follow a high protein diet to facilitate healing and promote weight loss. Bariatric centers advise what is commonly known among weight loss surgery patients as the "Four Rules" the most important of which is "Protein First." That means of all nutrients (protein, carbohydrates, fat and alcohol) the patient is required to eat protein first.

Protein is not always the most comfortable food choice for weight loss surgery patients who feel restriction after eating a very small amount of food. However, for the surgical tool to work correctly a diet rich in protein and low in simple carbohydrate slider foods must be observed. The high protein diet must be followed even after healthy body weight has been achieved in order to maintain a healthy weight and avoid weight regain.

Edited by CheeringCJ

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Wow, that is some great advice and a good explanation of slider foods.

Something I've needed to stay mindful of in my own life.

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The other issue with protien first....according to my endocrinologist..... is that our bones need lots of protien to stay strong. We can take all our calcium supplements but still end up losing bone mass because we are using up protien from our bones when we don't consume enough in our diet. I don't eat protien first anymore because I want to eat more veggies, but I do eat my protien requirement after eating my vegetables.  I figure that's okay because not only am I getting the required protien, I'm also getting the fibre and nutrients from a good selection of vegetables. Good nutrition after WLS really is a delicate balancing act. 

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I’ve seen examples of a bag of chips being crushed and a cup of crushed chips equaling hundreds of calories.  If we can eat a cup, imagine how many empty calories one gets..for a snack I like an apple, it’s dense and fills me up, a banana does not.  And at meals I still always aim for protein first.  Last night it was steak, I couldn’t finish it so I only had steak..

and yes, I still read the labels.  Yesterday at the store I put something back on the shelf because the protein wasn’t high enough..

BTW @CheeringCJ great article..

Edited by Cheesehead

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Thanks, CJ. We all need a little reminder from time to time. I'm up a couple of pounds over my 5 pound window right now, due mostly to highly palatable slider foods over the holidays. I've jumped back on the protein first wagon - it's less comfortable, and yes, that's the point! I often don't *want* to feel that uncomfortable feeling from eating eggs or tuna or high protein veggie burgers or shrimp or whatever, so I feel like eating something "easier" on my system (back away from the crackers!). I'm sure I'll be back down in my window soon, but it's definitely worth a quick slap of reality across the face: eating the "easy" stuff is a problem. Eating the "hard" stuff is necessary.

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2 hours ago, Jen581791 said:

Thanks, CJ. We all need a little reminder from time to time. I'm up a couple of pounds over my 5 pound window right now, due mostly to highly palatable slider foods over the holidays. I've jumped back on the protein first wagon - it's less comfortable, and yes, that's the point! I often don't *want* to feel that uncomfortable feeling from eating eggs or tuna or high protein veggie burgers or shrimp or whatever, so I feel like eating something "easier" on my system (back away from the crackers!). I'm sure I'll be back down in my window soon, but it's definitely worth a quick slap of reality across the face: eating the "easy" stuff is a problem. Eating the "hard" stuff is necessary.

Yeah, this is a great and timely reminder!  I've just gotten back down to the bottom of my five pound window (and back to the weight in my sidebar/sig) today, after a few weeks of indulging "here and there" in foods like crackers and uh -- over the holidays themselves -- a surfeit of pie.  It's not like these are the only foods I can eat that are easy on my stomach, either - yogurt is super easy for me, and usually the centerpiece of breakfast and lunch.  I can't say crackers or rice or whatever is the easiest.  But they certainly are easiER than things like chicken or pork or beef or fish, and so that's what I tend to tell myself. 

On the bright side, I found that getting back down where I want to be is a lot easier than it used to be.  One really low carb day got me half the way there; two more and I'm feeling like myself again.  My NEW self - instead of my old self, which is what I always fear when I make choices that are similar to the ones I would have made 16-24 months ago.  The tool works when I use it; it's just when I don't that things get dicey!

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16 hours ago, Michael_A said:

Wow, that is some great advice and a good explanation of slider foods.

Something I've needed to stay mindful of in my own life.

Nice to see you @Michael_A!!!!!  How are you doing, surgery buddy?

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7 hours ago, Jen581791 said:

Thanks, CJ. We all need a little reminder from time to time. I'm up a couple of pounds over my 5 pound window right now, due mostly to highly palatable slider foods over the holidays. I've jumped back on the protein first wagon - it's less comfortable, and yes, that's the point! I often don't *want* to feel that uncomfortable feeling from eating eggs or tuna or high protein veggie burgers or shrimp or whatever, so I feel like eating something "easier" on my system (back away from the crackers!). I'm sure I'll be back down in my window soon, but it's definitely worth a quick slap of reality across the face: eating the "easy" stuff is a problem. Eating the "hard" stuff is necessary.

Exactly!  That is how i was feeling too.  I am 3# up at 157 (up and down since the holidays but lately staying more up than down) but I want to get back below 155 (aiming for 150 eventually) but I have gotten complacent and w/o thinking about it have started eating some smaller less uncomfortable foods bc I hate that full uncomfortable feeling....and this article made me think...”DUH! That is what you had the surgery for, Dummy...use it to your advantage!”  Nice to have an eye opener every so often!  What you said is EXACTLY how. I feel and I need to reset that thinking.  The article made it make sense to me so I get the WHY of it all.  Back to protein for snacking for me.  I always eat protein first at meals and am fine but snacking I am less stringent lately on it being only protein.  I don’t know why these darned oyster crackers keep calling me but I didn’t buy any for my son yesterday bc i still can’t be trusted around them. I got him other much worse things I won’t touch (think hostess or tastycake crap) bc he is very underweight and can eat them and I am not the least bit ever going to be attracted to them but “little tiny, harmless oyster crackers can’t hurt me”!!!  Ugh, my brain!  Oh well, it’s only been happening this past week so now that I read that article you can bet it won’t be happening now!  Whew!

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So true.  the crackers go down really easily and before you know it 2 becomes 4 and so on.   Does anyone have this issue with protein shakes?   I have one in the morning to try and get a jumpstart on my protein.  I really do not feel full.  I use unsweetened almond mild and unflavored protein with chia and flax seeds.  I have also begun to add a piece of pear for texture and fiber.  I am usually quite busy in the mornings at work so I can ignore the empty feeling.  Just wondering as I know a number of people start their day with a shake.  If I do an egg with a veggie, I feel full.  Just can't do it during the week as I don't eat until about 9 or so and I am already at work.  

Thanks for the reminder.  

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I love sweets, but don’t like chocolate and peanut butter together!  Don’t like puppy chow;). I have peanut butter m and Ms and puppy chow here for super bowl.  I won’t touch them. Also made special k bars again chocolate and peanut butter.  Family can eat away!  I enjoy my shrimp cocktail.  Grilled wings aren’t appealing to me today.  Shrimp cocktail isn’t out yet.. Happy super bowl guys!  

0B56985E-B7A0-41CC-933F-A05E5F68A820.jpeg

Edited by Cheesehead

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11 minutes ago, Kim M said:

So true.  the crackers go down really easily and before you know it 2 becomes 4 and so on.   Does anyone have this issue with protein shakes?   I have one in the morning to try and get a jumpstart on my protein.  I really do not feel full.  I use unsweetened almond mild and unflavored protein with chia and flax seeds.  I have also begun to add a piece of pear for texture and fiber.  I am usually quite busy in the mornings at work so I can ignore the empty feeling.  Just wondering as I know a number of people start their day with a shake.  If I do an egg with a veggie, I feel full.  Just can't do it during the week as I don't eat until about 9 or so and I am already at work.  

Thanks for the reminder.  

I've been doing my "protein shakes" (coffee + fairlife milk) in the morning every day, then waiting until noon to eat anything else.  Trying out this whole "eating window" thing where I only eat from 12pm-8pm. I don't feel full on my coffee-shakes, but I do feel basically fine nutrition-wise -- not hungry at all.  Mostly, by 11 or 12, I just want to chew something -- it's not really related to being hungry.  

I guess I don't really ever "feel full" but I also don't really ever feel empty.  I know I'm really hungry when I start to feel a bit jittery and scatter-brained, but that's about it. Honestly I rarely hit that point, because I do have head/mouth hunger so I eat a small meal or snack probably every two hours between noon and 8pm.  Something healthy, about 85-90% of the time.  :)  in between, I drink a glass of something - broth or water or more coffee or tea.  I'm trying to build in some nice checks and balances for myself, because I'm still pretty close to surgery - just 16 months out - and I know the lack of hunger doesn't always last forever. 

If liquids alone aren't working for you in the morning, have you considered a microwave breakfast at work?  You can nuke a bowl of egg into scrambled eggs quite easily.  Throw in some broccoli or toss some cheese on, and it's really quite good.  The trick is to microwave them until they're almost, but not quite fully set, then let them finish cooking on their own by "resting" them for a minute. 

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On 2/3/2019 at 5:31 PM, Kio said:

I've been doing my "protein shakes" (coffee + fairlife milk) in the morning every day, then waiting until noon to eat anything else.  Trying out this whole "eating window" thing where I only eat from 12pm-8pm. I don't feel full on my coffee-shakes, but I do feel basically fine nutrition-wise -- not hungry at all.  Mostly, by 11 or 12, I just want to chew something -- it's not really related to being hungry.  

I guess I don't really ever "feel full" but I also don't really ever feel empty.  I know I'm really hungry when I start to feel a bit jittery and scatter-brained, but that's about it. Honestly I rarely hit that point, because I do have head/mouth hunger so I eat a small meal or snack probably every two hours between noon and 8pm.  Something healthy, about 85-90% of the time.  :)  in between, I drink a glass of something - broth or water or more coffee or tea.  I'm trying to build in some nice checks and balances for myself, because I'm still pretty close to surgery - just 16 months out - and I know the lack of hunger doesn't always last forever. 

If liquids alone aren't working for you in the morning, have you considered a microwave breakfast at work?  You can nuke a bowl of egg into scrambled eggs quite easily.  Throw in some broccoli or toss some cheese on, and it's really quite good.  The trick is to microwave them until they're almost, but not quite fully set, then let them finish cooking on their own by "resting" them for a minute. 

I think the empty feeling has more to do with the GERD.  That kind of feeling like put something in my stomach to soak up some acid. I am quite the opposite when it comes to meals.  I do 2 or 3 a day and sometimes a late afternoon snack if I don't expect to eat dinner until later that evening.  

Do take advantage of the no hunger time.  Being 6 1/2 years post op I can tell you it didn't last for me.  Although it does for some..  Since my revision, I don't eat much but I do have the desire that is very different than my first surgery.  

Microwave eggs.  I don't know but I am willing to try.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I know that some do the egg muffins that they freeze.  I don't have that much interest in preparing food at this point.  I do make lunch for the week and a quick dinner which is usually fish and a veggie.  

I will cook for my partner .  Maybe because his food is more interesting and I can be more creative.  

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10 hours ago, Kim M said:

I think the empty feeling has more to do with the GERD.  That kind of feeling like put something in my stomach to soak up some acid.

I'm with you here. I do a protein shake for breakfast a day or two a week, and I notice that I feel empty/acidy afterwards. I've found two things that help. I have 7 walnut halves after the shake. Or I have 4 gluten-free nut crackers called Mary's Gone Crackers. Both help that feeling so I feel full. (I actually use those crackers often for a snack.) They don't seem to trip any cravings for me, but help fill the void. They also are basically seeds glued together, so don't seem like slider foods. 

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On 2/2/2019 at 8:46 PM, CheeringCJ said:

I never really understood when ppl here talked about slider foods. I knew what kinds of foods they were but i didn’t quite get it.  So i was just reading a great article w/ a lot of insight . It really struck home bc i have been snacking on my son’s oysters crackers lately (really just little circle saltines) they aren’t a ton of calories and not a ton of flavor but they dont bother me so i can eat them more than i should.  Then I read this...gulp!  It is like a light went on and i thought ”yikes *I* am eating slider foods w/ these stupid tiny crackers!!!”  Plus lately i have been wondering if i still need to be eating so much protein like i did post op.  I was told post op that. I needed it to heal and wondered if I still needed sooo much.    I read that a lot of protein is hard on your body (not in relation to WLS just in general).  But this explained it enough to make me say “oh, I GET it!”.  Maybe it will be helpful to someone here to also didn’t get it before.....

 

Understanding Slider Foods

WOW, @CheeringCJ, thanks so much for posting this! I didn't really understand either. This article makes SO much sense!! I had noticed how scary tortilla chips can be because they never fill me up, and now I can see why. Knowing the science is so helpful and motivating! Thanks!!! 

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On 2/3/2019 at 5:16 PM, Cheesehead said:

I love sweets, but don’t like chocolate and peanut butter together!  Don’t like puppy chow;). I have peanut butter m and Ms and puppy chow here for super bowl.  I won’t touch them. Also made special k bars again chocolate and peanut butter.  Family can eat away!  I enjoy my shrimp cocktail.  Grilled wings aren’t appealing to me today.  Shrimp cocktail isn’t out yet.. Happy super bowl guys!  

0B56985E-B7A0-41CC-933F-A05E5F68A820.jpeg

What a great spread, @Cheesehead....love the guacamole stadium!!!!!

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By the time I get stuff on the table, I’m not hungry.  I had 2 shrimp with cocktail sauce.  The kids cleared the table so there’s only hubby Chex mix left.  I love to cook but I lose my appetite.  20# of grilled wings were gone.  Just because I can, doesn’t mean I have to eat it.  

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1 hour ago, Cheesehead said:

By the time I get stuff on the table, I’m not hungry.  I had 2 shrimp with cocktail sauce.  The kids cleared the table so there’s only hubby Chex mix left.  I love to cook but I lose my appetite.  20# of grilled wings were gone.  Just because I can, doesn’t mean I have to eat it.  

Interestingly enough, the things that look the most enticing to me are:

  • the berries (yum!!!!)
  • the eggs
  • the guacamole
  • the tomatoes/peppers
  • and though I can’t see it, I love shrimp!!!

which in and of itself says a lot for the changes from the old me! 

 

Edited by CheeringCJ

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9 hours ago, CheeringCJ said:

Interestingly enough, the things that look the most enticing to me are:

  • the berries (yum!!!!)
  • the eggs
  • the guacamole
  • the tomatoes/peppers
  • and though I can’t see it, I love shrimp!!!

which in and of itself says a lot for the changes from the old me! 

 

Aside from the eggs (I still can't get them down), you and I would have been fighting over the same foods! :lol:

It was just DH and I for the Super Bowl so I just threw a family sized pizza in the oven with 1/2 lb bowl of large shrimp on the side and a small bunch of grapes.  Come the end of the game (and I confess to having nodded off several times), the shrimp was gone there was close to 2/3rd of the pizza left (I picked off most of the sliced Kalamata olives that I'd added + some peppers and onions - I did not eat any of the base).

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I love those little oyster crackers when I'm not feeling good. Thank you for the information!  I've been having a lot of tummy trouble lately and so I started snacking on a few of those because they (mentally) seemed to soothe my tummy. Even water hurt to drink for a few days. But I could munch on those little crackers ok!  I limited myself because they are unnecessary carbs, but boy did they just hit the I need a crunch and salt spot too. Crackers of all kinds were my favorite types of carbs, it's a really good reminder that they aren't good for me and especially since I am still early-ish in my journey, I need to make sure that I am not having them. I always make sure to have my protein first at meals, but snacks seem to be whatever I have handy. My "meals" are all still so small and snack like that I need to watch myself before having an actual snack. I'm trying to cut back on cheese consumption also. 

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22 hours ago, cinwa said:

Aside from the eggs (I still can't get them down), you and I would have been fighting over the same foods! :lol:

It was just DH and I for the Super Bowl so I just threw a family sized pizza in the oven with 1/2 lb bowl of large shrimp on the side and a small bunch of grapes.  Come the end of the game (and I confess to having nodded off several times), the shrimp was gone there was close to 2/3rd of the pizza left (I picked off most of the sliced Kalamata olives that I'd added + some peppers and onions - I did not eat any of the base).

We make a ground chicken, eggs and parm base for pizza.  Pre bake it, dab off the grease, put sauce and toppings on it.  It’s really filling!  Know you can’t do much meat:(. Hubby makes a whole wheat pizza crust occasionally.  (While I love to cook I hate dealing with yeast, lol).  

My 5 and 6 year old grand kids love shrimp.  And berries!  Speaking of berries, raspberries are becoming good again here.  That’s one of my snacks with a big spoon of vanilla Greek yogurt.  Another of my snacks is apples (they are dense) and dannon light and fit Greek yogurt.  Right now there is a creme brûlée and salted Carmel yogurt I like on my apples.  We have a pot luck for in service at work in a couple of weeks; it’s salads or baked potato bar.  While I’m known, ironically for my desserts, I’ll bring a pan of slutty brownies (one of the teachers favorites); I won’t eat any of it.  I’ll grab my apple and Greek yogurt, lol!  Most salads will be pasta or fat based.  I don’t like potatoes..

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7 hours ago, Cheesehead said:

We make a ground chicken, eggs and parm base for pizza.  Pre bake it, dab off the grease, put sauce and toppings on it.  It’s really filling!  Know you can’t do much meat:(. Hubby makes a whole wheat pizza crust occasionally.  (While I love to cook I hate dealing with yeast, lol).  

....While I’m known, ironically for my desserts, I’ll bring a pan of slutty brownies (one of the teachers favorites); I won’t eat any of it.  ............

Normally, for DH and I, I'll make a cauliflower base pizza and although he'll eat it all, I know that it isn't quite the same so for the Super Bowl, I bought his favourite Wild Mike's Uncured Pepperoni Pizza and jazzed it up

I had to look up Slutty Brownies ..... WOW!  Where have they been all my life!  I guess there's probably many variations but a choc chip cookie dough base and Oreo cookies encased in brownie goodness ... https://prettysimplesweet.com/slutty-brownies/

yep, that’s the one.  A girl I work with loves them.  They make my stomach hurt thinking about them, lol!  They are easy to make but most of the girls I work with don’t have a clue how to cook or bake.  The rule ar my house is I’ll make it but nothing stays.  The adult kids are like vultures.  They bring containers and as one daughter says “I never go grocery shopping before I come to your house because I never know what I’m bringing home.”  

@CheeringCJ I don’t put the shrimp out til the last minute as the cats have to go in a time out as they think they are guests.  Wings were on the counter where the kiddos would run into the cord..

Hubby goes ice scuba diving every weekend.  I make muffins or quick bread and cookies for the guys.  The guys go straight to the truck for the goodies when he gets there.  He brings zip lock bags and they bring home the leftovers. He brings back the crumbs;)

Edited by Cheesehead

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On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 4:09 PM, Kim M said:

So true.  the crackers go down really easily and before you know it 2 becomes 4 and so on.   Does anyone have this issue with protein shakes?   I have one in the morning to try and get a jumpstart on my protein.  I really do not feel full.  I use unsweetened almond mild and unflavored protein with chia and flax seeds.  I have also begun to add a piece of pear for texture and fiber.  I am usually quite busy in the mornings at work so I can ignore the empty feeling.  Just wondering as I know a number of people start their day with a shake.  If I do an egg with a veggie, I feel full.  Just can't do it during the week as I don't eat until about 9 or so and I am already at work.  

Thanks for the reminder.  

I didn't  like starting with a shake either for the same reason.  I just didn't  feel like I had anything.  Some WLS people don't have that problem.  I rarely have shakes anymore, I like the food lol.  @CheeringCJ great article.  I try to be careful and keep the sliders out of the house.  

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On 2/3/2019 at 8:43 AM, Jen581791 said:

Thanks, CJ. We all need a little reminder from time to time. I'm up a couple of pounds over my 5 pound window right now, due mostly to highly palatable slider foods over the holidays. I've jumped back on the protein first wagon - it's less comfortable, and yes, that's the point! I often don't *want* to feel that uncomfortable feeling from eating eggs or tuna or high protein veggie burgers or shrimp or whatever, so I feel like eating something "easier" on my system (back away from the crackers!). I'm sure I'll be back down in my window soon, but it's definitely worth a quick slap of reality across the face: eating the "easy" stuff is a problem. Eating the "hard" stuff is necessary.

I think I've been existing on slider foods these past few months. Life has been so easy that its easy to grab a handful of crackers than to sit down and eat a meal. Plus, not wanting to eat meat has made me a bit lazy. I've been blaming my hectic lifestyle but I need to make time for myself. Thanks for the reminder @Jen581791 and @CheeringCJ 

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