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100% Failed With The Gastric Sleeve (3 Years Post Op)

WednesdaysSun

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Today I went to see my surgeon who did my sleeve for me and she says I have to talk to the therapist and nutritionist first before talking another surgery. I only went to see her because in my despair I couldn't think of what else to do. I feel as though if something as drastic as surgery didn't work for me what else can anyone do. I am only 18 lbs less than my original weight 3 years ago. The most I've ever lost was almost 30 lbs. I would come online and research failed gastric sleeves, everyone reassured me I was just losing it slow. No one loses this slow. I can't even say I eat a lot of fast food. I can eat a full plate of protein with ease. And I usually don't have time to eat all day so I have large helpings in the evenings.

I also feel frustrated because something is obviously wrong with me. I suffer from clinical depression and anxiety. I sometimes drink more now than I did before surgery. Nothing crazy but even that I drink vodka and diet coke. No sugary drinks. I'm pretty sure I have high blood pressure now. Even if I were the absolute worst patient and I know that I'm not, I should have lost a modest amount. My thyroid is fine last I checked a few months ago. Being this way has destroyed my self esteem and my life. I try diet and exercise in vain. I felt like she was making it clear that it was me and not the surgery. I'm sure she's right but it hardly seems fair that so many people did it and at least had temporary relief. 18 lbs in three years gaining and losing the same 10-15?? 

I am scheduled to do a barium swallow so she can look at my stomach and see if I need a revision. I don't want to switch to another type of weight loss surgery if it comes to that. If my sleeve is too big I'd be willing to redo it. Otherwise that's it.

 

The nurse practitioner says my case is unusual. That in their practice they may see one or two people per year who have not lost any weight like me. 

 

Why did I have to get the confirmation that I'm a biological freak of nature? I would suspect this when everyone says how easy it is to lose weight. I become maniacal about tracking things 

How do you cut out a chunk of your stomach and without even increasing your meals, remain the same weight?

 

So if you googled and landed on my page, I am a person who 100% failed at my weight loss surgery and now I have begun the very long process of trying to do something about it.

 

This nutritionist is going to make an appointment with me way later just to tell me to log my food which I already do. I am going to take the most meticulous notes I can so we can get to the point. Three years. The idea of waiting another day for legitimate help out of this prison of a body feels too much to bear.  I'm going to turn thirty looking like this and single because of it.

I posted this in a thread in the long term post op VSG portion of the site for anyone who wondered like I did years ago if its possible to fail.  Unlikely, I hear, but there's always that one

I'm that one. :( 

my heart is broken



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Anybody can defeat their surgery if they eat off-plan. I couldn't even fathom "a full plate of protein" at almost 3 years out. RNY here, not VSG, but my wife also had RNY 10 years ago, and she has defeated the purpose of the surgery. Following the plan for the rest of your life is the key to success. I *DO* wish you well! You obviously want to fix this, and I hope you and your medical team can find a solution! Best wishes to you!

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On 12/16/2015 at 7:27 PM, tmcgee said:

Anybody can defeat their surgery if they eat off-plan. I couldn't even fathom "a full plate of protein" at almost 3 years out. RNY here, not VSG, but my wide also had RNY 10 years ago, and she has defeated the purpose of the surgery. Following the plan for the rest of your life is the key to success. I *DO* wish you well! You obviously want to fix this, and I hope you and your medical team can find a solution! Best wishes to you!

thank you for your comment.

To be fair, I did not eat off plan for 3 years and if this surgery was going to help me, even a so-so diet would have yielded results. When I got this surgery I used to be home 24/7 in full blown depression grazing whenever I wanted completely sedentary.

Now I have school and work and only have time to eat one or two meals in the evening. I do not eat fast food. I don't drink sugar.  A full plate of protein is like roasted turkey or baked salmon just a big helping of either.  

Even if I sucked diet wise, my stomach has been made much smaller (theoretically).  I am within 18 pounds of initial weight and never made it past 30 lbs lost. If this was a matter of just diet and exercise, I would have been able to lose this weight without the surgery years ago or the many many many times I've tried to diet since the surgery. I am not a lazy dieter, I live a pretty active life now and on my better months, I'm in the gym regularly 

 

I keep losing and gaining the same weight and seeing nothing past that. It is extremely frustrating and now its like I have to be told that factors like diet and exercise and therapy are supposed to be what I'm doing wrong. What was the point of an expensive bariatric surgery then?  I guess all I am saying is I feel like I am beyond help.

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I don't drink sugar.  A full plate of protein is like roasted turkey or baked salmon just a big helping of either.  

Even if I sucked diet wise, my stomach has been made much smaller (theoretically).  I am within 18 pounds of initial weight and never made it past 30 lbs lost. If this was a matter of just diet and exercise, I would have been able to lose this weight without the surgery years ago or the many many many times I've tried to diet since the surgery. 

What was the point of an expensive bariatric surgery then?  I guess all I am saying is I feel like I am beyond help.

I hope you get resolution to what is going on with you and am sorry that you appear to be in so much pain. I agree that you should see a nutritionist and therapist to help you with your issues. 

A couple of things you wrote stood out to me. You said that you "don't drink sugar", what do you think vodka is? That breaks down into your system as sugar. So yeah, you do drink sugar.

You can eat a "full plate of protein" - that's too much. Your smaller stomach shouldn't be able to hold that much, regardless of whether it is roasted turkey or baked salmon. Your portions are too big - which is probably just one of the issues that you need to tackle. You may want to consider bringing snacks with you to work or when you run your errands, so you aren't starving yourself during the day and gorging yourself at night.

You've also mentioned that you eat large portions in the evenings - which is the worst possible time to eat large portions. I wonder if you're completely honest with yourself about how you "don't eat that much" and how active you really are. We all need to self-reflect. I know I do. I know that my biggest issue is portion control and that I will battle this for the rest of my life.

We all need to own up to our own misgivings, obfuscations, rationalizations and justifications. I know you're in pain, but I don't think that it is fair to blame your sleeve. Your sleeve does not dictate what goes in your body - you do. As tmcgee said and I subscribe to the belief that you can defeat your sleeve. You just may have. 

Again, wish you all the best and perhaps tackle your issues before moving to another surgery. 

Edited by BelleCurves

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Are you lactose intolerant?  If not, Try this at home.  First thing in the morning, take a 16oz container of cottage cheese.  Eat as much as you can until you feel just satisfied....not overly stuffed.   Do this fairly quickly....not over the 20 minutes we are supposed to take to eat a meal.   See how much cottage cheese is left and subtract from 16oz.  The difference is the size of your sleeve.  If it's anything from 4-12 oz, you have a "normal" sleeve and another sleeve surgery won't help.  If you can eat the whole 16 oz without being too full then yes, your sleeve may be too big.

On the other hand, I am only two years out and my restriction has definitely loosened.  If I ate all my sleeve could hold I would certainly gain back my weight.  I was warned by other veterans and now know it's true, after the first year or two portion control and food choices are all on me, not my sleeve.  

I do hope you find a solution to your problems.  BTW, are you seeing a therapist or counselor to help deal with your depression?  WLS should be about getting healthier...not just physically, but also mentally.  No sense being thin if you are unhappy.  And skinny does not mean happiness, either.  Mental health and weight are not necessarily correlated.

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I hope you get resolution to what is going on with you and am sorry that you appear to be in so much pain. I agree that you should see a nutritionist and therapist to help you with your issues. 

A couple of things you wrote stood out to me. You said that you "don't drink sugar", what do you think vodka is? That breaks down into your system as sugar. So yeah, you do drink sugar.

You can eat a "full plate of protein" - that's too much. Your smaller stomach shouldn't be able to hold that much, regardless of whether it is roasted turkey or baked salmon. Your portions are too big - which is probably just one of the issues that you need to tackle. You may want to consider bringing snacks with you to work or when you run your errands, so you aren't starving yourself during the day and gorging yourself at night.

You've also mentioned that you eat large portions in the evenings - which is the worst possible time to eat large portions. I wonder if you're completely honest with yourself about how you "don't eat that much" and how active you really are. We all need to self-reflect. I know I do. I know that my biggest issue is portion control and that I will battle this for the rest of my life.

We all need to own up to our own misgivings, obfuscations, rationalizations and justifications. I know you're in pain, but I don't think that it is fair to blame your sleeve. Your sleeve does not dictate what goes in your body - you do. As tmcgee said and I subscribe to the belief that you can defeat your sleeve. You just may have. 

Again, wish you all the best and perhaps tackle your issues before moving to another surgery. 

thank you for your thoughtful replies.  

I don't drink vodka enough for it to matter but since I follow a low carb lifestyle, vodka is my "safest" choice if I'm going to drink.

My schedule is something like 4 am to 7-10PM depending on the day.  That is the only time I am sitting still enough to have a meal since I don't eat fast food.  I am being honest about my intake and have a long history of documentation showing just what my intake is.  I am so frustrated that everyone here is telling me the what the regular world tells people PRE-OP.  If diet and exercise were all it took for me to lose weight, I would not need the sleeve.  Even if I were the most inconsistent, laziest patient alive, I should have done better than 18 lbs.

 

I'm not a person who is consumed with wishful thinking. I believe in science so I obviously understand there is some source of failure. But I do resent everyone telling me I failed a procedure that supposedly removed a large portion of my anatomy.  

I may be a stranger to all of you but I'm an honest one.  I don't have many variables in my stressful, incredibly mundane life with rare social scenarios.  

 

This is the kind of skepticism that made me not want to go get help sooner.  I'm starting to think there is really no point in going back and asking for help.  Because according to everyone on here, my diet and exercise must suck to such an extreme that bariatric surgery made zero effect.

 

btw @bellecurves, my frustration is not at you in any way and thank you for your reply. I am just at my wits end and would like a perspective different from the diet and exercise rhetoric I've dealt with all my life. The amount of money, time, effort, faith, and hope I have drained into this is obscene. I am a normal human being.  Something is not right.

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I am so sorry that you are broken-hearted about your situation.  I spent the last 15 years before my surgery being broken-hearted, also stuck at the same horrible weight.  I would rigorously follow diets, exercise religiously and still not budge the scale; while others seemed to melt away with ease.   One of the biggest aspects of my broken-heartedness was the injustice.  How could I eat the same/exercise the same as others and they got to lose weight/be thin and I made all these sacrifices and still had to be obese?  Adding insult to injury was when others would say – “well, just be grateful you are not gaining…..or just make the best of being fat…….or consider that all your work is probably improving your health in some invisible way.”  Great, thanks for sharing. 

The other major heart-break was the normal reaction from “the world " when I tried to explain what was happening   -  “You are lying about this - to me or to yourself - calories in/calories out -  blah, blah, blah"  It was the biggest relief of my life when I saw a bariatric specialist [about being in a drug test that I ended up not qualifying for] and he said, "I know you are telling the truth.  I know you are doing what you say you are doing.  People’s bodies are complicated, obesity is a complicated process and it works differently in different people and we still don't know so many things."  He told me that his research suggested I could probably never have gotten as fat as I did if I hadn’t done so many diets.  That I had probably wrecked my metabolism with all my “sacrificing.”  He didn't even have a solution for me......but just being heard and believed meant EVERYTHING to me.  So, for what it is worth, I hear you and I believe you.  

Knowing my history, I went into surgery knowing that it was likely that things would still not be fair -- I would not be a fast loser – and I wasn’t.  That I would probably still be needing to lose weight when the “honeymoon” was over -- and that I would probably need to do twice as much to get half the results – that I would have to put in the very hard work to discipline my emotional/habitual indulgent nature and cravings.......and that is how it has been.   I exercised an average of 2 hours per day [I exercised at least as many calories as I ate every day] from month 2 to month 9.  I’ve taken a little break from the exercise [now average 45 minutes per day] for the last two months and added back in some foods and my weight loss has stopped.  Only extreme adherence works for me and I am willing for this new life I have. I am not an average patient and no kind of surgery that I know of will make me an average patient.  I will probably never be able to eat “my fair share” – I will always have to eat less.  I will probably never eat flour or sugar, my old best friends…. Or drink alcohol.  I can’t afford the little indulgences that many other patients seem to be able to enjoy.

 Does this make me pout?  Yes.  Does it make me way less unhappy that being overweight?  Yes.

If you relate to my “metabolic/hormone/gene/unknown factors” situation, and it sounds like you do from your post, I think it would be really valuable for you to take some time to sit with this knowledge and really let it sink in.  It isn’t fair, it isn’t right, it isn’t pretty, but it sounds like it just IS.

Once you get a grip on this reality, and take some time to grieve it, because it is an injustice……then you can make some decisions.  Right now you are trying to act on the basis of denial because it is so hard to accept the fact that you may either have to choose to live your life being obese, accepting and making the very best of the many wonderful things about you as you are …….or you are going to have to go to extreme lengths that most people are not asked to go to change your body size [and your health].   Journaling can be so helpful.  If you are like me, the pain from the judgment that people don’t believe you and the pain from the comparison to others who seemed to achieve their dreams while yours were denied…….is the biggest obstacle to seeing your situation clearly.  It would be for me.  Letting that go is the path to clearly deciding on the next step. 

Some people are better able to cope with obesity than I was.  I felt shame and anger and self-loathing every day of it and no amount of self-talk or therapy or prayer ever really moved the dial on that for me very much.  So my choice was to accept the challenge and in many ways become an extreme advocate for my body.  I study the most effective ways to do this, staying up on the latest breakthroughs in nutrition and neuroscience  ……..not because it comes naturally………..but because that is all that works to move the dial on the scale for me and being a normal weight was and is my heart’s desire.

From what I have learned from my studies and from my own experience, if you choose to join me on this path:  

You might have to change jobs or careers and/or work hours ……because the stress may retard your body’s ability to lose weight. 

You might have to take time to slowly eat small, healthy sit-down meals at regular times throughout the day, even if you are not hungry or think the world can’t survive without you for ½ hour [they can].

You might need to -0- out on snacks, especially in the evening, and stop eating 4 hours before bed.

You probably need to -0- out alcohol for the foreseeable future. 

You probably need to write down every bite of food that goes in your mouth, put it in Fitness Pal and let your friends on this page have access to see it to help you with accountability. 

You may need to change your life to get 7-8 hours of good sleep per night [even though you know you are an exception that doesn’t need that much].

You may need to do both strength training to build muscle and vigorous aerobic exercise virtually every day of your life.  You may need to find a way to do lots of it outside for the benefits that the sun and nature mysteriously add to the venture.

If your obesity is a big part of why you are depressed, you may need to advocate for yourself to get  medications and explore other treatment modalities that don’t tend to cause weight gain or retard weight loss. 

You need all the spiritual and emotional support you can get, however that works for you.

You need to find a type of meditation practice and breathing exercises that will help you literally change your brain around food and eating issues and your general equanimity. 

Getting over the hurt and pain of being disbelieved and disappointed, you are going to have to find a way to find trust and confidence to ask for and get the help you need to move forward, with both professionals and others on the path.  None of us can do this alone.

If you are still with me after all this………please PM me anytime if you want to talk about anything I’ve said or for support.  Please know I am writing this with love and compassion in my heart for you, as I would have wanted someone to reach out to me when I was hurting so terribly in the same way.

Best,

Patricia

 

 

 

 

That being said, large portions, fasting all day and then eating large meals at night and drinking alcohol, especially while taking medications, are all things known to stop weight loss in everybody.  

 

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sorry, but Any vodka is TOO MUCH VODKA.

Most of us here could and have raved about the "injustice" 

You have a choice -- either bite the bullet and give up alcohol and "plates full of" fill in the blank....  OR accept the fact you are not going to lose the weight you want to.

I,personally, would love a skinny margarita or two, or a piece of pizza.  The facts are facts -- I have Either and i gain weight.  is it "fair"?  THERES NO SUCH THING AS FAIR in losing weight.

 

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Boy that is the truth my husband is so thin he eats three times as much as I do an he stays thin. I am just beginning the pre op process and, reading this blog post scared me at first but, I can see she has made many mistakes I know my Dr. has told me are no no's.   I think she should go back to the beginning and drink protein drinks when she cannot eat do to work and eat a very small amount of food to shrink her stretched out surgery.

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I am so sorry that you are broken-hearted about your situation.  I spent the last 15 years before my surgery being broken-hearted, also stuck at the same horrible weight.  I would rigorously follow diets, exercise religiously and still not budge the scale; while others seemed to melt away with ease.   One of the biggest aspects of my broken-heartedness was the injustice.  How could I eat the same/exercise the same as others and they got to lose weight/be thin and I made all these sacrifices and still had to be obese?  Adding insult to injury was when others would say – “well, just be grateful you are not gaining…..or just make the best of being fat…….or consider that all your work is probably improving your health in some invisible way.”  Great, thanks for sharing. 

 

The other major heart-break was the normal reaction from “the world " when I tried to explain what was happening   -  “You are lying about this - to me or to yourself - calories in/calories out -  blah, blah, blah"  It was the biggest relief of my life when I saw a bariatric specialist [about being in a drug test that I ended up not qualifying for] and he said, "I know you are telling the truth.  I know you are doing what you say you are doing.  People’s bodies are complicated, obesity is a complicated process and it works differently in different people and we still don't know so many things."  He told me that his research suggested I could probably never have gotten as fat as I did if I hadn’t done so many diets.  That I had probably wrecked my metabolism with all my “sacrificing.”  He didn't even have a solution for me......but just being heard and believed meant EVERYTHING to me.  So, for what it is worth, I hear you and I believe you.  

 

Knowing my history, I went into surgery knowing that it was likely that things would still not be fair -- I would not be a fast loser – and I wasn’t.  That I would probably still be needing to lose weight when the “honeymoon” was over -- and that I would probably need to do twice as much to get half the results – that I would have to put in the very hard work to discipline my emotional/habitual indulgent nature and cravings.......and that is how it has been.   I exercised an average of 2 hours per day [I exercised at least as many calories as I ate every day] from month 2 to month 9.  I’ve taken a little break from the exercise [now average 45 minutes per day] for the last two months and added back in some foods and my weight loss has stopped.  Only extreme adherence works for me and I am willing for this new life I have. I am not an average patient and no kind of surgery that I know of will make me an average patient.  I will probably never be able to eat “my fair share” – I will always have to eat less.  I will probably never eat flour or sugar, my old best friends…. Or drink alcohol.  I can’t afford the little indulgences that many other patients seem to be able to enjoy.

 

 Does this make me pout?  Yes.  Does it make me way less unhappy that being overweight?  Yes.

 

If you relate to my “metabolic/hormone/gene/unknown factors” situation, and it sounds like you do from your post, I think it would be really valuable for you to take some time to sit with this knowledge and really let it sink in.  It isn’t fair, it isn’t right, it isn’t pretty, but it sounds like it just IS.

 

Once you get a grip on this reality, and take some time to grieve it, because it is an injustice……then you can make some decisions.  Right now you are trying to act on the basis of denial because it is so hard to accept the fact that you may either have to choose to live your life being obese, accepting and making the very best of the many wonderful things about you as you are …….or you are going to have to go to extreme lengths that most people are not asked to go to change your body size [and your health].   Journaling can be so helpful.  If you are like me, the pain from the judgment that people don’t believe you and the pain from the comparison to others who seemed to achieve their dreams while yours were denied…….is the biggest obstacle to seeing your situation clearly.  It would be for me.  Letting that go is the path to clearly deciding on the next step. 

 

Some people are better able to cope with obesity than I was.  I felt shame and anger and self-loathing every day of it and no amount of self-talk or therapy or prayer ever really moved the dial on that for me very much.  So my choice was to accept the challenge and in many ways become an extreme advocate for my body.  I study the most effective ways to do this, staying up on the latest breakthroughs in nutrition and neuroscience  ……..not because it comes naturally………..but because that is all that works to move the dial on the scale for me and being a normal weight was and is my heart’s desire.

 

From what I have learned from my studies and from my own experience, if you choose to join me on this path:  

 

You might have to change jobs or careers and/or work hours ……because the stress may retard your body’s ability to lose weight. 

 

You might have to take time to slowly eat small, healthy sit-down meals at regular times throughout the day, even if you are not hungry or think the world can’t survive without you for ½ hour [they can].

 

You might need to -0- out on snacks, especially in the evening, and stop eating 4 hours before bed.

 

You probably need to -0- out alcohol for the foreseeable future. 

 

You probably need to write down every bite of food that goes in your mouth, put it in Fitness Pal and let your friends on this page have access to see it to help you with accountability. 

 

You may need to change your life to get 7-8 hours of good sleep per night [even though you know you are an exception that doesn’t need that much].

 

You may need to do both strength training to build muscle and vigorous aerobic exercise virtually every day of your life.  You may need to find a way to do lots of it outside for the benefits that the sun and nature mysteriously add to the venture.

 

If your obesity is a big part of why you are depressed, you may need to advocate for yourself to get  medications and explore other treatment modalities that don’t tend to cause weight gain or retard weight loss. 

 

You need all the spiritual and emotional support you can get, however that works for you.

 

You need to find a type of meditation practice and breathing exercises that will help you literally change your brain around food and eating issues and your general equanimity. 

 

Getting over the hurt and pain of being disbelieved and disappointed, you are going to have to find a way to find trust and confidence to ask for and get the help you need to move forward, with both professionals and others on the path.  None of us can do this alone.

 

If you are still with me after all this………please PM me anytime if you want to talk about anything I’ve said or for support.  Please know I am writing this with love and compassion in my heart for you, as I would have wanted someone to reach out to me when I was hurting so terribly in the same way.

 

Best,

 

Patricia

 

 

 

 

 

 

That being said, large portions, fasting all day and then eating large meals at night and drinking alcohol, especially while taking medications, are all things known to stop weight loss in everybody.  

 

 

 

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On 18/12/2015 at 2:22 AM, gamzap said:

I am so sorry that you are broken-hearted about your situation.  I spent the last 15 years before my surgery being broken-hearted, also stuck at the same horrible weight.  I would rigorously follow diets, exercise religiously and still not budge the scale; while others seemed to melt away with ease.   One of the biggest aspects of my broken-heartedness was the injustice.  How could I eat the same/exercise the same as others and they got to lose weight/be thin and I made all these sacrifices and still had to be obese?  Adding insult to injury was when others would say – “well, just be grateful you are not gaining…..or just make the best of being fat…….or consider that all your work is probably improving your health in some invisible way.”  Great, thanks for sharing. 

 

The other major heart-break was the normal reaction from “the world " when I tried to explain what was happening   -  “You are lying about this - to me or to yourself - calories in/calories out -  blah, blah, blah"  It was the biggest relief of my life when I saw a bariatric specialist [about being in a drug test that I ended up not qualifying for] and he said, "I know you are telling the truth.  I know you are doing what you say you are doing.  People’s bodies are complicated, obesity is a complicated process and it works differently in different people and we still don't know so many things."  He told me that his research suggested I could probably never have gotten as fat as I did if I hadn’t done so many diets.  That I had probably wrecked my metabolism with all my “sacrificing.”  He didn't even have a solution for me......but just being heard and believed meant EVERYTHING to me.  So, for what it is worth, I hear you and I believe you.  

 

Knowing my history, I went into surgery knowing that it was likely that things would still not be fair -- I would not be a fast loser – and I wasn’t.  That I would probably still be needing to lose weight when the “honeymoon” was over -- and that I would probably need to do twice as much to get half the results – that I would have to put in the very hard work to discipline my emotional/habitual indulgent nature and cravings.......and that is how it has been.   I exercised an average of 2 hours per day [I exercised at least as many calories as I ate every day] from month 2 to month 9.  I’ve taken a little break from the exercise [now average 45 minutes per day] for the last two months and added back in some foods and my weight loss has stopped.  Only extreme adherence works for me and I am willing for this new life I have. I am not an average patient and no kind of surgery that I know of will make me an average patient.  I will probably never be able to eat “my fair share” – I will always have to eat less.  I will probably never eat flour or sugar, my old best friends…. Or drink alcohol.  I can’t afford the little indulgences that many other patients seem to be able to enjoy.

 

 Does this make me pout?  Yes.  Does it make me way less unhappy that being overweight?  Yes.

 

If you relate to my “metabolic/hormone/gene/unknown factors” situation, and it sounds like you do from your post, I think it would be really valuable for you to take some time to sit with this knowledge and really let it sink in.  It isn’t fair, it isn’t right, it isn’t pretty, but it sounds like it just IS.

 

Once you get a grip on this reality, and take some time to grieve it, because it is an injustice……then you can make some decisions.  Right now you are trying to act on the basis of denial because it is so hard to accept the fact that you may either have to choose to live your life being obese, accepting and making the very best of the many wonderful things about you as you are …….or you are going to have to go to extreme lengths that most people are not asked to go to change your body size [and your health].   Journaling can be so helpful.  If you are like me, the pain from the judgment that people don’t believe you and the pain from the comparison to others who seemed to achieve their dreams while yours were denied…….is the biggest obstacle to seeing your situation clearly.  It would be for me.  Letting that go is the path to clearly deciding on the next step. 

 

Some people are better able to cope with obesity than I was.  I felt shame and anger and self-loathing every day of it and no amount of self-talk or therapy or prayer ever really moved the dial on that for me very much.  So my choice was to accept the challenge and in many ways become an extreme advocate for my body.  I study the most effective ways to do this, staying up on the latest breakthroughs in nutrition and neuroscience  ……..not because it comes naturally………..but because that is all that works to move the dial on the scale for me and being a normal weight was and is my heart’s desire.

 

From what I have learned from my studies and from my own experience, if you choose to join me on this path:  

 

You might have to change jobs or careers and/or work hours ……because the stress may retard your body’s ability to lose weight. 

 

You might have to take time to slowly eat small, healthy sit-down meals at regular times throughout the day, even if you are not hungry or think the world can’t survive without you for ½ hour [they can].

 

You might need to -0- out on snacks, especially in the evening, and stop eating 4 hours before bed.

 

You probably need to -0- out alcohol for the foreseeable future. 

 

You probably need to write down every bite of food that goes in your mouth, put it in Fitness Pal and let your friends on this page have access to see it to help you with accountability. 

 

You may need to change your life to get 7-8 hours of good sleep per night [even though you know you are an exception that doesn’t need that much].

 

You may need to do both strength training to build muscle and vigorous aerobic exercise virtually every day of your life.  You may need to find a way to do lots of it outside for the benefits that the sun and nature mysteriously add to the venture.

 

If your obesity is a big part of why you are depressed, you may need to advocate for yourself to get  medications and explore other treatment modalities that don’t tend to cause weight gain or retard weight loss. 

 

You need all the spiritual and emotional support you can get, however that works for you.

 

You need to find a type of meditation practice and breathing exercises that will help you literally change your brain around food and eating issues and your general equanimity. 

 

Getting over the hurt and pain of being disbelieved and disappointed, you are going to have to find a way to find trust and confidence to ask for and get the help you need to move forward, with both professionals and others on the path.  None of us can do this alone.

 

If you are still with me after all this………please PM me anytime if you want to talk about anything I’ve said or for support.  Please know I am writing this with love and compassion in my heart for you, as I would have wanted someone to reach out to me when I was hurting so terribly in the same way.

 

Best,

 

Patricia

 

 

 

 

 

 

That being said, large portions, fasting all day and then eating large meals at night and drinking alcohol, especially while taking medications, are all things known to stop weight loss in everybody.  

 

 

 

Patricia, your reply was fantastic. So much truth, the sad truth that we have to face. Life is very unfair in general, but particularly for the obese. Maybe one day science will find a cure...maybe.

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I am 2 years out and really struggling. I dont seem to have much restriction left and I cannot control my hunger or impulses to eat just like before. I cant do it. I do not want to be fat but I am always starving.
I am thinking of the band now because the restriction stays and can be tightened up again and again.

I can not control my eating something has to do it for me.

Any thoughts on the band?

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5 hours ago, Chelan said:

I am 2 years out and really struggling. I dont seem to have much restriction left and I cannot control my hunger or impulses to eat just like before. I cant do it. I do not want to be fat but I am always starving.
I am thinking of the band now because the restriction stays and can be tightened up again and again.

I can not control my eating something has to do it for me.

Any thoughts on the band?

Are you seeing a therapist or physiatrist?  Did you ever work with a professional to address the issues behind why you can't control your impulses?  Because What you describe is a mental issue, not a physical one and that's where your struggle lies.  Obesity is a mental disease, not a physical one.  You will fail at any WLS if you don't fix your head, first.  I know it's been said a thousand times, but your sleeve is just a tool.  And a minor tool at that.  It's the psychiatric tools that really make the difference....the new habits, the new coping mechanisms, the new relationship with food....it takes a lot to make this work.

I'm 2 1/2 years out and yes, I feel hunger and yes, my restriction is less.  If I ate all my sleeve allowed, I would "fail", too.  It's the work I put into the mental aspect of my obesity that keeps me successful.  My therapist has been more valuable than my surgeon.

The band will definitely not help.  You may even have a hard home finding a surgeon that would even do it.  I have a friend that has had a Lapband for over 10 years.  1) she never reached goal weight and is still very overweight. 2) she has reflux and vomits all the time if the band is too tight. 3) she gains weight if the band is too loose. 4) she never addressed any of the psychological issues behind her eating disorder and food addiction (and yes, not bring able to control what your eat, as you describe, is an addiction)  5) she is looking to revise to bypass or sleeve.  but in the end, none of them will work long term without the mental tools.

If you are really looking for a surgical fix, revising to DS would be much more effective than Lapband.  It is the most drastic of the WLSs out there and the severe malabsorption would allow you to get away with eating more and being able to still lose weight with poor food choices.  The tradeoff is the increased complication rate and lifetime of careful supplementation and monitoring of nutritional deficiencies.  And the sleeve is the first part of a complete DS surgery anyways.  

Good luck.  This is not an easy road we are on, but in the end it all comes down to choices.

PS. You talk about having no restriction.  What is it that you are eating?  I can easily down a whole bag of chips or 1000 calories worth of peanut butter, but a 1/2 cup of steak or chicken breast would leave me feeling stuffed.  Did you try the cottage cheese test to verify the size of your sleeve?

Edited by ThinCVT

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3 hours ago, ThinCVT said:

Are you seeing a therapist or physiatrist?  Did you ever work with a professional to address the issues behind why you can't control your impulses?  Because What you describe is a mental issue, not a physical one and that's where your struggle lies.  Obesity is a mental disease, not a physical one.  You will fail at any WLS if you don't fix your head, first.  I know it's been said a thousand times, but your sleeve is just a tool.  And a minor tool at that.  It's the psychiatric tools that really make the difference....the new habits, the new coping mechanisms, the new relationship with food....it takes a lot to make this work.

I'm 2 1/2 years out and yes, I feel hunger and yes, my restriction is less.  If I ate all my sleeve allowed, I would "fail", too.  It's the work I put into the mental aspect of my obesity that keeps me successful.  My therapist has been more valuable than my surgeon.

The band will definitely not help.  You may even have a hard home finding a surgeon that would even do it.  I have a friend that has had a Lapband for over 10 years.  1) she never reached goal weight and is still very overweight. 2) she has reflux and vomits all the time if the band is too tight. 3) she gains weight if the band is too loose. 4) she never addressed any of the psychological issues behind her eating disorder and food addiction (and yes, not bring able to control what your eat, as you describe, is an addiction)  5) she is looking to revise to bypass or sleeve.  but in the end, none of them will work long term without the mental tools.

If you are really looking for a surgical fix, revising to DS would be much more effective than Lapband.  It is the most drastic of the WLSs out there and the severe malabsorption would allow you to get away with eating more and being able to still lose weight with poor food choices.  The tradeoff is the increased complication rate and lifetime of careful supplementation and monitoring of nutritional deficiencies.  And the sleeve is the first part of a complete DS surgery anyways.  

Good luck.  This is not an easy road we are on, but in the end it all comes down to choices.

PS. You talk about having no restriction.  What is it that you are eating?  I can easily down a whole bag of chips or 1000 calories worth of peanut butter, but a 1/2 cup of steak or chicken breast would leave me feeling stuffed.  Did you try the cottage cheese test to verify the size of your sleeve?

Obesity is not a mental disease. It is a very real multifactorial physical disease. There is a very srtong genetic factor (not one genetic marker but many that are present in morbidly obese patients and not in healthy people), there are thousands of hormones involved (just read a few articles about leptin, for example). It is not an imginary disease or a mental disorder. Don´t make Chelan think he/she´s just weak. He/she is fighting a very real battle against his own body. 

A therapist can certainly help change some habits but it´s not the holy grail or none of us would be here having had our anatomy modified by surgeons. 

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9 hours ago, ThinCVT said:

Are you seeing a therapist or physiatrist?  Did you ever work with a professional to address the issues behind why you can't control your impulses?  Because What you describe is a mental issue, not a physical one and that's where your struggle lies.  Obesity is a mental disease, not a physical one.  You will fail at any WLS if you don't fix your head, first.  I know it's been said a thousand times, but your sleeve is just a tool.  And a minor tool at that.  It's the psychiatric tools that really make the difference....the new habits, the new coping mechanisms, the new relationship with food....it takes a lot to make this work.

I'm 2 1/2 years out and yes, I feel hunger and yes, my restriction is less.  If I ate all my sleeve allowed, I would "fail", too.  It's the work I put into the mental aspect of my obesity that keeps me successful.  My therapist has been more valuable than my surgeon.

The band will definitely not help.  You may even have a hard home finding a surgeon that would even do it.  I have a friend that has had a Lapband for over 10 years.  1) she never reached goal weight and is still very overweight. 2) she has reflux and vomits all the time if the band is too tight. 3) she gains weight if the band is too loose. 4) she never addressed any of the psychological issues behind her eating disorder and food addiction (and yes, not bring able to control what your eat, as you describe, is an addiction)  5) she is looking to revise to bypass or sleeve.  but in the end, none of them will work long term without the mental tools.

If you are really looking for a surgical fix, revising to DS would be much more effective than Lapband.  It is the most drastic of the WLSs out there and the severe malabsorption would allow you to get away with eating more and being able to still lose weight with poor food choices.  The tradeoff is the increased complication rate and lifetime of careful supplementation and monitoring of nutritional deficiencies.  And the sleeve is the first part of a complete DS surgery anyways.  

Good luck.  This is not an easy road we are on, but in the end it all comes down to choices.

PS. You talk about having no restriction.  What is it that you are eating?  I can easily down a whole bag of chips or 1000 calories worth of peanut butter, but a 1/2 cup of steak or chicken breast would leave me feeling stuffed.  Did you try the cottage cheese test to verify the size of your sleeve?

You can also ask your surgeon how big your restriction is- I did very early out because I need details.

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5 hours ago, blameitonthegenes said:

Consider that this article is from 2011. So much more has been discovered since then. 

Some sections from this article that were of particular interest to me:

" Although it is the obesogenic environment that has resulted in this major healthcare problem, it is acting by revealing a sub-population with a pre-existing genetic predisposition to excess adiposity. There is substantial evidence for the heritability of obesity, and research in both rare and common forms of obesity has identified genes with significant roles in its aetiology."

"obesity and its causes  are still elusive

In the 1960s, Neel (11) proposed the ‘thrifty gene’ hypothesis, whereby genes that predispose to obesity would have had a selective advantage in populations that frequently experienced starvation. People who possess these genes in today's obesogenic environment might be those that ‘overreact’— not just becoming slightly overweight, but extremely obese. Recent support for the thrifty gene hypothesis was provided by Pritchard and co-workers (13), who found that many genes involved in the glucose and lipid metabolism have been subject to positive selection in the last 10 000 years."

" research into monogenic or syndromic obesity resulted in the identification of many genes involved in the regulation of appetite via the leptin–melanocortin pathway"

"The Human Obesity Gene Map summarizes the present situation in the field of common polygenic obesity (31). There are currently 253 quantitative-trait loci (QTLs) identified in 61 genome-wide scans, and 52 genomic regions contain QTLs supported by two or more studies. As in any complex genetic disease, there are many unconfirmed genetic associations. There are currently 22 gene associations supported by at least five positive studies (summarized in Table 1). These genes include members of the leptin–melanocortin pathway, proinflammatory cytokines and uncoupling proteins."

EPIGENETICS

It is also becoming clear, in both rare and common forms of obesity, that epigenetic influences, defined as any heritable influence on genes that occurs without a change in the DNA sequence, are also important. There is also an initial report of genomic imprinting, playing a role in common obesity at three different genomic loci, it would be highly surprising if epigenetics was not a significant contributor to the complexity of the genetics of common obesity."

" Altogether, these data suggest that obesity can be metabolically ‘neutral’ if there is an effectively unlimited availability of small insulin-sensitive subcutaneous adipocytes for fat storage. This appears to protect against the progressive development of fat-related chronic inflammatory disease. This protective pattern is, at least in part, genetically driven. In contrast, it has also been shown that in the context of obesity, carrying gene variants that worsen obesity-associated insulin resistance dramatically increases risk for diabesity and also for CHD "

"

OBESITY, HEALTH AND GENETICS

The controversy about the consequences of obesity on health was recently fuelled by two papers: a follow-up study of former obese subjects ‘cured’ by bariatric surgery found no beneficial effect on mortality (87), suggesting that losing weight, even for very obese people, does not always improve health. Furthermore, a large Scandinavian epidemiological study showed that overweight subjects with no associated co-morbidities (i.e. with no metabolic syndrome) who intended to lose weight, and succeeded in doing so, died earlier than those who maintained or increased their weight (88).

Thus, it seems that obesity is more phenotypically and genetically heterogeneous and more complex than previously thought. Genetics (and probably epigenetics) plays an important role in the energetic imbalance leading to fat accumulation, but being obese does not necessarily mean being ill and, indeed, it is likely that very good health is required to establish and to maintain extreme obesity. As demonstrated by the data on adiponectin, genetics also determines, at least in part, the extent to which the inflation of fat depots predisposes to dysmetabolism, eventually dramatically increasing morbidity and mortality risk. Unravelling the genetic background associated with every stage of obesity and its consequences for health is of paramount importance, as it may help to suggest less emotive and more efficient ways to manage the obesity phenomenon."

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My intention is not to disparage you.....but something is way wrong with this entire picture you posted.  Are you really being honest with yourself?

You need to seek a qualified eating disorder therapist.  Along with finding out more regarding the shape, size of your sleeve.  Nothing you have stated even makes sense.  

I am glad some posters are supporting you....I can't drink the kool-aid.

Good luck, and may you really discovered the real issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I in no way meant to imply that Chelan is weak.  Seeking whatever help you need to achieve your goals is not a sign of weakness.  Quite the opposite in fact, it takes courage and humility   I'm simply pointing out the importance of changing our behaviors in conjunction with surgery if we want to succeed.  And I'm the first person to admit I could not make those changes alone.
 

With very very few exceptions, no one that regains after WLS does so by sticking with the diet plan that helped them lose in the first place.  It's the return to the habits that made us fat the that causes regain.  The point of therapy is to teach us new coping mechanisms and ways to change our thought patterns and behaviors in order to give us our desired results.

 
Of course there are genetic, chemical and hormonal components to obesity, just like with any other addiction.  We wouldn't choose to do something that gives us negative, unwanted results unless there was some type of internal reward.  But at this point, we can't change our genetics, we can only change our behaviors and treat certain chemical and hormonal imbalances. 
 
Chelan stated "I can't control my impulses".  That is the very definition of addiction.  Addiction treatments are difficult and complicated and involve both chemical and psychiatric intervention.  You wouldn't just give an alcoholic Antabuse or a heroin addict methadone and send them on their merry way.  Just like you don't perform surgery on an obese person and send them out the door, expecting long term, positive results. She was also inquiring about revising to another type of WLS.  I was simply trying to explain that is probably not where the answer lies.  It's a combination of surgery, psychiatry and possible drug therapy that makes weightloss and maintenance possible, not a different surgery.  My surgery would not have worked without therapy and my therapy would not work without my Wellbutrin and testosterone replacement.
 
And while I appreciate the articles you provided, I'm guessing the posters struggling with their postop weight loss are looking for a little more practical advice than "It's genetic".  We need to focus on changing the things we can control, not become victims of the things we can't.  Despite the genetic component, thousands of obese people (including myself) have lost all of their excess weight and kept it off.  Our genes are still exactly the same as when we were fat.  It's only our behaviors and the choices that we make that have changed.
 
 

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2 hours ago, ThinCVT said:
I in no way meant to imply that Chelan is weak.  Seeking whatever help you need to achieve your goals is not a sign of weakness.  Quite the opposite in fact, it takes courage and humility   I'm simply pointing out the importance of changing our behaviors in conjunction with surgery if we want to succeed.  And I'm the first person to admit I could not make those changes alone.
 

With very very few exceptions, no one that regains after WLS does so by sticking with the diet plan that helped them lose in the first place.  It's the return to the habits that made us fat the that causes regain.  The point of therapy is to teach us new coping mechanisms and ways to change our thought patterns and behaviors in order to give us our desired results.

 
Of course there are genetic, chemical and hormonal components to obesity, just like with any other addiction.  We wouldn't choose to do something that gives us negative, unwanted results unless there was some type of internal reward.  But at this point, we can't change our genetics, we can only change our behaviors and treat certain chemical and hormonal imbalances. 
 
Chelan stated "I can't control my impulses".  That is the very definition of addiction.  Addiction treatments are difficult and complicated and involve both chemical and psychiatric intervention.  You wouldn't just give an alcoholic Antabuse or a heroin addict methadone and send them on their merry way.  Just like you don't perform surgery on an obese person and send them out the door, expecting long term, positive results. She was also inquiring about revising to another type of WLS.  I was simply trying to explain that is probably not where the answer lies.  It's a combination of surgery, psychiatry and possible drug therapy that makes weightloss and maintenance possible, not a different surgery.  My surgery would not have worked without therapy and my therapy would not work without my Wellbutrin and testosterone replacement.
 
And while I appreciate the articles you provided, I'm guessing the posters struggling with their postop weight loss are looking for a little more practical advice than "It's genetic".  We need to focus on changing the things we can control, not become victims of the things we can't.  Despite the genetic component, thousands of obese people (including myself) have lost all of their excess weight and kept it off.  Our genes are still exactly the same as when we were fat.  It's only our behaviors and the choices that we make that have changed.
 
 

Ì totally agree with you on most of what you´ve said. I just strongly oppose people who say and believe that obesity is all in our heads. We are not obese because we are lazy, we not obese because we are crazy, we are obese because we have a strong genetic predisposition and live in a world were there´s easy access to high calorie foods. It has to be understood that a normal person (without the genenes for obesity) would not become morbidly obese even living under the same conditions. They just don´t store fat in the same way, they don´t have the same hormonal responses to food and their metabolisms work differently. I just feel it´s our duty to correct this ignorant belief. 

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I couldn't agree more about dispelling the misconceptions, stigma and discrimination attached to obesity.  Believe me, I've had my share of arguments involving the ignorance surrounding both obesity and WLS.

I just like to discourage the concept of being a victim and encourage the belief that there are things we can do to combat our genetic disposition.  I didn't mean to minimize the significance or seriousness of obesity when I called it a mental illness.  I take mental illnesses very serious and see no difference between them and a "physical" disease.  In fact, the latter is very often easier to deal with than the former.

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