andiesmeltzer

10 years post op

35 posts in this topic

I am almost 10 years post-op. I am having alot of dumping issues where my sugar levels drop to the point of passing out, getting shakes, and sweats. Does my doctor care? No

My teeth are so bad that I have had 6+ root canals and need 5 more. Had 3 teeth pulled because I cant afford $$$$ in dental work. My gums are pulling away from my teeth and I have had oral thrush on my tongue now for over 1 year. Doctors say antibiotics will make it worse and cause additional issues with yeast infections. My teeth are no longer white, but an off yellow color and I do not smoke. Yes, I brush and floss daily. Even rinse with antiseptic mouthwash to no avail. I have been reading alot about teeth issues and gastric bypass. No, I dont vomit or have GERD that would cause erosion.

My hair falls out each fall, despite my protein intake. I eat alot of chicken and eggs!

I have IBS so bad now that I have to be careful where I go, to make sure a bathroom is available. I have already had several accidents where I have had uncontrollable diarrhea. I am so embarrassed about this, that I carry a small container of scented spray in my purse, because the odor can be pretty overwhelming. Not that poo smells like roses or anything. It runs out of me like water!

Had my gallbladder removed (full of stones) in 2007 via laparoscopy. I was in pain for months and misdiagnosed with acid reflux. I told my family doc that I didnt think it was reflux. Finally, ended up doing a ultrasound 9 MONTHS later! Ooops! I had my appendix out in 2008 due to a fecalith stone after they did 2 colonoscopies on me to see if there was anything internally causing the IBS.

I am borderline osteoporotic and I noticed I have trouble with night vision driving. I can not drink milk or eat dairy products, because I get horrible stomach pains and major diarrhea with it. I have gone from 2 herniated disks to 4 due to the deterioration of my bones. I have developed scoliosis too. I am only 37 years old.

I am severely depressed. I regret the surgery and wish I could reverse it, but the damage is ALREADY done. I lost my 15 year old son on Thanksgiving Day 2008 and frankly I dont give a *&^% if I live or die now. All the crap that I have had to deal with regarding my health and this surgery... just isnt worth it. I'd rather be overweight or dead than live like this. I used to fear that the GB surgery was going to kill me before I turned 40 and actually now that my son is gone, I dont care. Please GOD take me!

My surgeon on my last visit didnt seem to care or show ANY concern with my problems and I was quickly escorted out of the office. I am wondering if the lawsuits he has pending has anything to do with that. He made his money on my surgery, why worry about me now? Yes, I am very pissed off about the healthcare I have received following my surgery.

I work in medical records and have had the opportunity to read charts for patients who had the same surgeon who are expressing similar concerns or patients who are just generally having long term post op problems.

Something needs to be done!

I'd like to know if there is a specific TYPE of doctor who I should be seeing besides the bariatric doctors (who are all fellow associates to the surgeon I had do my surgery) who can help with some of these problems. I think I need an INDEPENDENT consultation with a doctor unrelated to GB surgery.

You know, they all stick up for one another!

Up until my son's death, I have been religiously taking my vitamins, iron, etc. I have actually stopped taking everything now except my depression medication prescribed by my shrink. Why? I just dont care anymore.

I am at my wits end. Anyway, just found this website forum and wanted to tell alittle about my story.

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Andie, So very sorry for your son's passing.

you didn't have the RNY, did you? many of your symptoms sound like what my mother has. she had hers done about 12 years ago in CA. She had a pancreatic switch or whatever it'c called, her stomach was removed. She still dumps bad, and has horrendous gas. Her teeth are discolored, and her hair is thin.

You definitely need to see another specialist. She is on antibiotics now, and she is doing much better. she no longer smokes out a room, and can function better without being embarrased about the awful blowouts.

I'll try to get the info on what she's taking. Probiotics also helped her too

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I hear your pain, I really do. Sometimes we just need someone to listen and hear us say I am hurting and in pain. Death is a horrible plague on mankind. I can't and will not say I know how you feel because I don't. I only know how it feels to loose a father and a sister. That's bad enough, but I have been told that the death of a child is the most devistating of all. It's just wrong for a mother to loose a child. I know when I lost my sister to death, it felt like an elephant was standing on my chest, I had difficulty just breathing. I could hardly get out of bed, due to the depression and pain. For me to take proper care of myself was totally impossible for me and at that time I had not undergone gastric bypass. The only thing that helped me was knowing that God was not the one who took her and the support of good friends. I didn't hear you speak of any really good friends. Are they living close by in order to assist you during this most difficult time of your life? You mentioned being under a doctor's care for your depression and that was very good to hear, you need all the loving care possible. We all need help and sometimes more than the usual. I am only six year out from my surgery and I find that dealing with emotional issues are the hardest of all. Taking vitamins, water, rest and excercise is a routine we hopefully have learned at this point. If not we must go back to basics, that always helps. Good and sound medical care is essential for our long term health, which you seem more than aware of. But the stress of your situation can be the root of many of your concerns. Was your son sick for a long period of time? My sister died of a heart attack at age 45, no warning that we took note of at the time. In hind sight there were many signs. I still feel sad and miss her dearly, but after eight years I am able to remember some of the happier days. What really helps me, at this point is sure promise of the Bible. Revelations 21:3-4, God promises that death and pain will be undone. I look forward to seeing my loved ones again, here on earth. Did you ever learn about that. When God will raise the dead back to life here on earth. If and when you feel up to it I'll be happy to forward some encouraging words. You can email me if you want to at [email protected]I will respond to you. I hope you the very best, hold on you can do it. Your son would more than likely want you to be OK. He will always be a part of your life. You never have to stop loving him, not ever and it's really, really, really OK to be angry, sad and mad, you are normal this is call grieving! Cry all you need to!

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Yes, I had a Roux N Y in 6/00. I dont care if what I eat is sweet or not. I dump and I dump bad. God forbid if I drink a diet coke or pepsi. Seems like that is a big problem, but I cant drink the regular sodas. I hate plain water. Got into drinking vitamin waters and Fuze.

Yes, I need to vent. Nobody seems to understand what I am going thru. Just never seems to end. I am off work because of my son. I cant focus, was diagnosed with PSTD w/ anxiety. I have been hospitalized already for being suicidal (not that my feelings have changed much) and honestly miss my son so much. I just dont give a *&^% anymore.

To Joyce: my 15 yr old son Jamie (Jamie Smeltzer if you want to google him) was killed in an auto accident. He was a passenger of a car driven by an 18yr old friend he just met. The kid was going almost 70mph (in a 35 zone) when the police say he lost control of the car and struck a tree. The 70mph was based on their accident reconstruction done by the Pennsylvania State Police. My son, who was over 6ft tall and over 272lbs, was killed by the airbag instantly. I was on the scene of the accident 25 mins after it happened and the coroner and police wouldnt let me go to him. He didnt have a chance. We are now in litigation, suing the kid and his family's auto insurance.

He was just charged with vehicular manslaughter. Hoping he rots, but I know he will get a slap on the wrist. Hopefully he is suffering just as much as me. I have no pity for this boy or forgiveness for that matter. He had 2 speeding tickets before the accident (we only found out after the accident) and then proceeded to get 4 more. Yes, 4 more.

I have no desire to live or go on with life. I go for a laparoscopy next week and I am praying I don't wake up.

I just wanted to let people know that this surgery aint all it's cracked up to be. It may solve or help some problems, like diabetes, but I am concerned with all the long term affects that we are now seeing. I am seeing more and more people having problems (being that I work in the health field) and someone needs to start documenting this and start working on fixing problems. I feel like a guinea pig, really. My quality of life stinks. No pun intended on the IBS problem mentioned in my last post.

They dont know what damage happens to the body after they reconfigure our plumbing. They sure make it sound good on commercials though, dont they?

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Not to offend, but I think you need INTENSE psychological counseling before you go under any kind of procedure again. I would never want to lose a child, and the issues you are having healthwise i'm sure isn't making anything easier. I wish you the best and i hope your future is a positive one.

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Not to offend, but I think you need INTENSE psychological counseling before you go under any kind of procedure again. I would never want to lose a child, and the issues you are having healthwise i'm sure isn't making anything easier. I wish you the best and i hope your future is a positive one.

You are absolutely right. I do see a shrink and a social worker and am going to grief counseling weekly. My life is in shambles. I'd prefer not to have any surgery, but there is possible adhesions at the sight of my appendectomy and causing severe pain.

Seeing the things I have seen working in the health field is really scary. I wished I had known these things prior to the GB. I probably wouldnt have gone thru with it.

I gained weight from a cocktail of meds I was on for a bladder disorder that has no cure. Then the weight wouldn't come off. Caused bursitis in both hips, heel spurs, you name it. I couldn't exercise, so this was their answer. I had almost NO prep for the surgery back then. You know, the dieting prior to surgery, the counseling, the insurance company approved me instantly...

It seems like people have to jump thru hoops these days. I didn't have that problem. I just need to make better medical choices from now on. Especially, after everything I have been through and everything I have seen and read in the office.

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I am curious to know what your current weight is.

If you snore, or mouth breathe that can lead to multiple caries. Malnutrition due to your diet and dedication to post op vitamins can also add to that.

If you get the shakes, and heart palpatations that is normal for people whose diets arent ideal. It happens from eating a high glycemic carb diet and not enough protein, or not following the carbs with protein, they have to be paired or you will have sugar spikes and crashes. You should focus on maintaining a diabetic type diet with lots of protein in it.

You NEED a support group. You need to learn more about your tool. I know plenty of woman who DIDNT have WLS who have IBS, GBS does not give you IBS. Several things can contribute to that, including stress and a poor diet, as well as family history.

Your discs are getting worse because you are getting older. Your spine foundation was already damaged, it will never get better, it needs to be managed. This goes for anyone who has DDD of the spine.

Decrease eye vision is a result of malnurtition as well. Just ask Woody, look up his story about how his wife nearly lost her vision completely.

I would say about 75% of people who have WLS are victims/survivors of physical, sexual and emotional abuse of some sort. You arent alone. Many suffer from PTSD.

Why are you blaming the surgery? Life happens. Unfortunately life ends as well. Illness happens ... to ALL people.

Im 5 years out and I dump too. Ice Cream makes me pass out cold. So guess what I do? I dont eat ice cream. Just like I know putting my hand on a hot stove will hurt me, so I dont do it.

Sounds like you are in alot of emotional and pschological pain and you want to drown those sorrows in food, but ya cant.

You are deliberating hurting yourself. You cant do it with food, so you stop your vitamins. You are probably living dangerously on top of that and driving too fast, driving irradically. Doing things that are dangerous so you can die by "accident".

Your son would NOT want this for you. I really, really am saddened by the untimely passing of your son. But with life is loss. When you go to a garden to pick flowers you dont pick the ugly ones, you only pick the most beautiful ones. God picked your beautiful child at this time. It F'ing sucks, its unfair, he was so full of life and he was your sunshine on a cloudy day, but he is gone. Celebrate his life but doing something positive. Start a foundation in his name, try and make tougher laws for repeat offenders who speed.

What you have to do honey is stop blaming, and start owning, and learning how to work through your feelings in a healthy way.

This surgery gave you a quality of life that you used to love, it allowed you to be a (for the most part) healthy, active mom who could rejoice and keep up in your sons life. If you didnt have it, you could have died as a result of your obesity many years ago.

I cant recommend a Dr, other than the obvious of you really needing a therapist. BUT YOU DO NEED A SUPPORT GROUP! This where you will flourish, this is where you will become your "old" self, this is where you will start to get happy again. With your people, the people that get you.

How far is East Berlin from Lancaster PA? I would love to buddy up with you, I would love to help you create that law. I would love to be your friend and show you that you arent alone.

I too suffer from Ortho/Spine problems. I have tooth problems, but I get regular check ups every 6 months to be on top of it. I have a special needs teenage child. I work in the health field. I too have lost people I love to untimely, senseless accidents.

I still dump. I get the shakes too. I live in Pennsylvania.

I cant blame you for not being able to focus, being mad, being pissed, hurting internally and externally. Its okay to feel this way. Embrace it, accept it and damn it cry about it. But then get up, brush yourself off because you are fearless, unstoppable and loved by many.

I want you to get through, I want to help you get through this. It cant happen casting blame tho. I hope this doesnt sound like a big girl scout, optimism, rainbows, and butterflies, bunk up happy camper type of feedback. Im a realist, and I know you can recover stronger, healthier and better than ever.

Glad your here and hope to hear from you soon!

In friendship always!

Edited by bridgetgirl
So many type-os!

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I gained weight from a cocktail of meds I was on for a bladder disorder that has no cure.

Medicine doesnt make people gain weight, the food we put in our mouths do. We are responsible for our gains and losses, nothing else.

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I understand you have a therapist and a psychiatrist. I would greatly encourage you to increase your participation in therapy by entering a partial hospitalization program (groups and individual treatment for several hours a day). This would still be outpatient, just more intensive services. You're still taking your anti-depressant, which to me represents the hope that you have buried beneath all of this grief. Please continue to take it. I am talking from a personal standpoint, having depression and having been suicidal in my life, and also from a professional level, as I am an LSW.

What others have said, please give it some thought.

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I have been very diligent over the years and followed my diet as prescribed by the doctor. I dont want to sound like I have neglected my responsibilities over the past 10 years in regards to this surgery.

I do see the dentist regularly. THey are amazed at how fast my teeth are deteriorating. I actually switched dentists because I thought one of them was pulling my leg about the deterioration with the gastric bypass and figured they were just trying to get money out of me. 2 more dentists later, they are all saying the same thing. Malabsorption and vitamin deficiencies despite the regimine of vitamins I was taking on a daily basis.

Yes, I am getting older, so I am bound to start falling apart. I was told I am deficient in Vitamin D. Have actually developed mild scoliosis.

My anger over the past 4 months from my son's death has not caused the past 10 years worth of damage to my body. I have had several doctors give opinions as to what is happening to me and it all leads back to the surgery.

And yes, the meds I was on have "weight gain" as their side effects.

I was 175 lbs most of my life at 5 ft 10 in tall. After being diagnosed with my interstitial cystitis and was put on the meds, I gained 110 lbs. So, at my highest weight, I was 285. I am currently 165 because I havent eaten hardly anything since my son's death in Nov.

I appreciate your concern. I do need help. I am in desperate need of help actually.

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Well Im glad youre here sugar pea, I hope you stick round! (( HUGS ))

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I really hope you stick around. I do. Honestly, you need this forum.

This place is like my family. When no one else understands, I know I can turn to here and someone will hold a hand out and support me whole-heartedly. I probably trust more people on here than I do some of my friends. I turn to this place when i'm happy, when i'm sad, when I need to vent or when I feel like I want to help someone else.

You look like you need a shoulder to lean on.. and plenty of us are ready to offer it to you. You can get through this, one step at a time.

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Wow, Andie... you have been through so much.. I'm really glad you're here and posting.

I totally agree with everything Bridget said in her first post.

I would also suggest you seek out a second opinion with doctor unaffiliated with your current surgeon.. and then probably even a third.

There are complications known to this surgery and we can't really know how we will fare, but we can take steps to minimize some of them.

You NEED to make an effort to take the vitamins & supplements required, the right KIND of vitamins & QUANTITY.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your son, as a parent I can't imagine how painful that must be for you. I'm sure your son would want you to take care of yourself.

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Hi Andie, I'm glad you found this forum because there is bound to be at least some amount of help, encouragement or just plain understanding that you will find here.

I'm just a couple years after you with surgery. I too did not get any information like what people get now. My surgeon said to take Tums and any old chewable vitamin. Well here I am now, with osteopenia, the same thing you have.

Has your doctor put you on the medication to treat osteopenia so you can hopefully avoid osteoporosis? I have been on the oral medication Fosamax for awhile now, and just this month I went to the doc to have him put me on the IV treatment for the drug. Because I don't think my body can absorb the drug orally. Now this wasn't because my brilliant doctor or surgeon said I should do it. Nope. It was due to my own research and the wonderful help of someone here on the forum. Thank god for that.

Anyway, when I told my PCP what I wanted, he wrote a referral to an endocrinologist so I can get IV treatment for my bone loss. So when you ask "what doc should I see" I'd suggest an endocrinologist for the osteopenia AND for any other internal medicine/glandular/malnutrition evaluation and treatment. I think endocrinologists are a good choice for us this far out postop with the complications we have.

I've lost too much muscle - protein drinks weren't prescribed back when we had surgery were they? Nope. I lost my daughter (she was taken) for nine months. I wasted away to 114 lbs. (I'm 5'8") and 114 lbs. was like frickin Skeletor. I have no idea what that length of time I was too thin has done to my body for the long run. But it scares me.

I already had moderate/severe scoliosis before surgery. And I worry too about THAT. I worry about a lot, because I am so far out and because now I see there ain't *&^% when it comes to information about long-term postop complications. IT PISSES ME OFF.

BUT, what's done is done. Yes I've lost all my weight and maintained it. I've learned how to eat like a thin person and I don't struggle to keep my weight down. I've just learned how to eat to live. Sometimes I don't eat near enough though. And like Bridget said, sometimes I think I don't eat right or take my vitamins right because of my own depression sabotaging myself.

I'm writing to say I understand some of what you're going through and how scary it is to not know how much worse things will be. I do have a teenage daughter and frankly she has been (at times) the only thing that's kept me alive. Yeah, especially back in 2005 when my mother took her.

Well...I'm glad you're here, and I hope that by writing you it may help you feel less alone. You aren't being punished by God in any exceptional way...I've got some of the same *&^% going on and yeah I feel sorry for myself a little, but mostly I feel very helpless. Or like the strength I do have just ain't enough to keep me healthy for a long time. I just realized that my life is more than half over. Interesting thought. But I don't say it with the pain you do of feeling suicidal. I don't feel that way now but I have before. And I just hope you'll find the strength to get answers. Sometimes it's too scary to see a doc, to get tests, and find out just how bad things are. I tend to be like an ostrich, because it's too freakin scary to find out how bad things are. Do you do that too? :rolleyes:

Edited by Phoenixfire

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Phoenix and Bridget,

I am SO GLAD you two are on here. I feel so much more confident that I have strong support. I believe that you two are strong, supportive and realistic women - good to have you on our side!

Love you lots and lots,

Rose

Lap RNY 05/08/08

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First I want to say how truly sorry I am for your loss.

I have a son the same age and I cant imagine this happening- but if it were to happen I know he would want me to go on and be strong and honor his memory. I had a friend who was killed when we were 16 years old due to a drunk driver- I watched this tear her family apart and one did kill themselves- this to me is the worst thing you could do to your family, friends, co workers, and people you may think dont even know you exist. I agree with previous post honor his memory and fight for tougher laws and enforcements- be his voice and fight for him. The anger will always be in your heart but the love you felt for him is stronger- do this in memeory of him and dont let people forget how wonderful he was in life.

May God watch over you and protect you in this time of need- we are all here for you- night or day someone will respond to you

Susan

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Dear Andie,

I ache for you and your pain and am so sorry that your load is so heavy to bear. I lost my mother to a drunk driver when I was 15. 30+ years later and I'm still not over it. You don't get over such loss; you just try to live through the pain. Doing something constructive to honor your son may help you to feel him next to you.

You have the overwhelming double burden of your medical issues and as much as you may not feel strong enough to, you have to deal with them and try to regain strength to go on living. You had your weight loss surgery before enough was known about what prep was really necessary and you have paid that price physically. Some good advice has come through here about getting other medical opinions and seeing an endocrinologist among others. I would also consider a gastroenterologist.

It sounds as though you have some diet guidelines to work with. Have you had good nutrition counseling along the way regarding keeping up missing nutrients? You are too young for such physical deterioration. Do you think an aggressive nutrition plan may be one piece of the puzzle? Calcium? Protein? Vitamin D? and on and on....

You are in my prayers. Take baby steps but take steps. You have a life to live, pain and all...

take care-

Cathy (aka ardita)

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I have IBS so bad now that I have to be careful where I go, to make sure a bathroom is available. I have already had several accidents where I have had uncontrollable diarrhea. I am so embarrassed about this, that I carry a small container of scented spray in my purse, because the odor can be pretty overwhelming. Not that poo smells like roses or anything. It runs out of me like water!
OMG FINALLY someone else that this is happening too, (God i'm sorry but no one but me here has this and its so hard for people to understand, i cant even drive down 2 blocks without having a panic attack that i'll poop on myself and thus usually have to speed to a restroom) My GI said to take pepto bismal for 2 weeks and see if that helped sure it helped for the 2 weeks, now i drink the stuff DAILY before leaving the house and most days it still doesnt help. I just want you to know i TOTALLY understand you and i'm so sorry cause i know what its like i drive with a towel under my a$$ just in case.

Now, about your life situation I agree with jrsygirl. You must seek that help for YOU sweetie no if ands or butts. I would consider finding an inpatient facility for 30days to help you work thru the greif process and the intense counseling. My God i'm so sorry for your loss I couldnt even begin to imagine what your feeling, going thru right now my sincere thoughts are with you I hurt for you i have a 16 year old and just the thought alone of your pain brings me tears. May God keep you and strenghthen you in this time and we are here for you to lean on

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Andie,

I am so sorry about the loss of your son. I can not say I had the same surcomstance by I to have lost a child. It has been 4 years since my daughter has been gone and that rocks your world like nothing else!!!! I recall the stress of it all like it was yesterday. I remember waking up the next day like it was a bad dream and realising what really happened. I to felt like I did not want to go on.

Im not going to spin this like there is some great light at the end of the tunnel but as time goes by it will get easier. I AM speaking from experience. I still have days that it will cripple me like I was struck with a bat. Im not going to tell you that god made this decision because it was for the best, i will not say that as time goes on it goes away I will tell you that you learn to cope better. A little at a time.

Please believe in the words I am telling you because I have lived the grief you are living, I have not given a *&^% if I was hit by a bus or not or hoped I did not wake up that is what the weight of loosing a child can do to you. Continue with your help get more if you need it and if you need me private message me and we can work something out to chat. I am sorry about your medical issues as well sorry I dont have any help there but I think right now you need someone to understand the other side of your world to.

Hugs and kisses from me to you.

Alex

Mom of Sydney my baby girl.

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I know where you are coming from, I know exactly where you are coming from, and its a $!)(#*$ shame to have to deal with the loss, (its been 10 years for me), and for some to say it will get better, well it isnt that easy folks, and for anyone here to even attempt to tell you what to do, or how to do anything right now is ludicrous, this is your time to vent, to vent at the world, because the world is whats causing your pain. Its fries my @*# to read people telling you it will get better, or to move on etc.

Only one person has the ability to get through this,and you know who that is, but with the help of chemicals, it can be easier, and the feeling of hopelessness is so overwhealimg at times, it makes you want to .....well you have said it! I have been to that side of life that is completely black, and its not a good place.

Now that said, have you been to your shrink lately? You need to do this NOW, dont listen to those telling you to up your dosage, you need to talk to the professionals, and tell them where you are at, they need to change or meds possibly,and they need to do it now.

Stay within yourself, and let the bullshit filter through your emotional system, but most importantly, get the help NOW my dear, dont let it go too far. No one has the answer to why this *&^% happens, or how long it takes to get through it. (the best you can, you will never get through it!!) you just nee to deal with the reality of the unfairness!! WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BURY OUR CHILDREN!!

I will PM you my number, do with as you please, sometimes it helps to vent about how unfair life is sometimes!!

Im here....

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Medicine doesnt make people gain weight, the food we put in our mouths do. We are responsible for our gains and losses, nothing else.

Actually, medication can cause weight gain. Antidepressants are often culprits. My surgeon has said he is surprised I have been able to lose so much weight while on the medication I am taking.

Kelly

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There's very few medicines that MAKE u gain weight. Anti-depressants not being one of them.

My friend has lupus and that medicine/treatments make her gain.. However anti-depressants and birth control? No. They may increase hunger but we personally put the food in our mouths to make us gain, not the pills we're taking.

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And for some to say it will get better, well it isnt that easy folks, Its fries my @*# to read people telling you it will get better, or to move on etc.QUOTE]

I just want to clarify I was not saying it will get better like sweep it under the rug. I was saying that as time goes on we each can learn to deal with it better and in our own way. I would NEVER insult someone by saying that because it burned and still burns my @*# when someone says it to me. I dont think the comment was directed at me but I wanted to makie sure it was clear where I was coming from. That was and still is by far the worst day of my life. My dad died 2 years later and that didnt even come close to the pain I felt. I was 30 years old and having to plan a funeral for my daughter. I feel lucky I am here today to share my story and not have a nervous break down. To both of you I am sorry for your loss and there was nothing but love in my words.

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Phoenix and Bridget,

I am SO GLAD you two are on here. I feel so much more confident that I have strong support. I believe that you two are strong, supportive and realistic women - good to have you on our side!

Love you lots and lots,

Rose

Lap RNY 05/08/08

Thank you so much Rose :) I love Christines (Phoenix) insight and mind she is quite eloquent. Thanks again!

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Thank you so much Rose :) I love Christines (Phoenix) insight and mind she is quite eloquent. Thanks again!

PSSST Bridget, its Kristine!! And dont call her Kris!!:D

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