MiladyB

Is All Protein Created Equal?

95 posts in this topic

I sent an email off to the nutritionist in my surgeon's office yesterday. I wanted to ask her about these 3 oz protein vials so many seem to be taking after surgery. I was curious what she thought of them and if it was the kind of protein we should be using after surgery. She quickly got back to me with an explaination about protein. I just thought I would share it with all of you. I know this is a pretty technical explaination but I thought some of you might like to know what kind of protein is best for us when it comes to protein supplements.

Here is her email response:

Not all protein has the same value to your body. The amino acid profile

is the reason for this. Proteins are made of amino acids. There are 20

different ones in the human body. Of the twenty, 9 of them must be

consumed to meet your daily needs. These 9 amino acids are called

Essential (EAA) or Indispensable.

The 9 EAAs are needed in certain proportions. A protein scoring system

called Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Scoring (or PDCAAS)

was developed to show which products contain all the EAA and in the

correct proportions. It is supported by the FDA, the World Health

Organization, and perhaps most importantly, the Institute of Medicine at

the National Academy of Sciences. The highest possible score is 100.

-- Collagen Protein gets a 0 (the lowest possible score)

-- Whey Protein Isolate gets 100 (the highest possible score)

Some proteins such as COLLAGEN or HYDROLYZED COLLAGEN protein are

missing one of the EAAs entirely. So the PDCAAS for collagen is zero.

Collagen is often the main ingredient in protein supplements that come

in a liquid form, and they usually have lower PDCAAS scores.

Here are some collagen products that have lower PDCAAS scores:

New Whey and Profect1: These products appear to have a PDCAAS score of

5 or 6 out of 100. Lab analyses of several samples suggest that about

94% of their protein, by weight, is from collagen.

Proteinex2: The Proteinex OTC products appear to get protein only from

hydrolyzed collagen, so their PDCAAS score is 0 or virtually 0.

Pro-Stat 64 / Pro-Stat 1013: These products appear to have a PDCAAS

score of about 37 out of 100.

The BEST products to purchase are products made from whey protein

ISOLATE (not concentrate) and soy protein ISOLATE.

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Thanks for this information, Beth.. this was exactly what my Nut had told me, but it's good to have a second opinion. I bought the New-Whey protein supplements, and used some of them, but my Nut pretty much went nutty on me about them and begged me, no commanded me to toss them out for exactly the reasons stated in your above post.

I haven't tossed them but I haven't used them again, either.

Edited by mistymee
Josephine, Eireanne and Melraelee like this

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So is the Syntrax Nectar a whey protein ISOLATE?

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Thank you Beth. I was just wondering what type of protien I should buy. This is the information I need. Thanks again:)

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So is the Syntrax Nectar a whey protein ISOLATE?

Yes, it is Brenda and according to my nutritionist that is the best choice.

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Thank you Beth. I was just wondering what type of protien I should buy. This is the information I need. Thanks again:)

Oh you are most welcome. :) I just found it interesting. I had heard talk that those vials may not be the best choice for us so I was curious if that was true. Apparently it is but there are still alot of great supplements out there that would be good for us. Glad you found the information useful.

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Thanks very much Beth for the information.

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Yes, thanks for sharing... my surgeon required that I brought in my protein (and other supplements) 1 week b4 surgery to ensure I will be taking the best things for me. Whey protein isloate (or wpi with no more than 50% soy) is all she would accept. We have very strict "handouts" that were given to us that has all this info in it!

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Nikki, i like your surgeon! shes throughough

Beth once again thank you for your great information that is so usefull. In the beginning i had NO clue what protein to buy but since finding out as well that whey protein was best for us :) thanks Beth i know your helping lots of protein haters out here :)

Oh and i just looked at my bottle of special K protein water and there protein is whey protein isolate whew and here i was thinking i was drinking nothing nutritious haa

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Great info. Thank you Beth.

I just got some new stuff I ordered online. It's 100% Soy Protein Isolate. It states :

A complete vegetable source protein with a PDCAA score of 1.0, the highest measure of protein quality.

I'm assuming that's the 100 score you were talking about?! (I hope)

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Great info. Thank you Beth.

I just got some new stuff I ordered online. It's 100% Soy Protein Isolate. It states :

A complete vegetable source protein with a PDCAA score of 1.0, the highest measure of protein quality.

I'm assuming that's the 100 score you were talking about?! (I hope)

hmmmm...I would have thought is would have said 100 but guess that's the way they write it. Sounds like a good choice, Julie.

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Whoah! I didn't know that about the protein. I actually just ordered samples of the Profect. :o My NUT actually told me about the vials. I may just print out what you posted and ask her about it.

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Now I'm worried. I use Any Whey Protein and the first ingredient listed is: protein blend including whey protein isolate, whey protein concentrate, and why protein hydrolysate. Anyone have a clue as to whether this will meet my needs? I'm new enough out of surgery that I'm drinking a shake a day to get all my protein in but I don't have a nut to ask and I couldn't find anything on line about this specific brand (other than from the company I purchased from and they claim it's very good).

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Now I'm worried. I use Any Whey Protein and the first ingredient listed is: protein blend including whey protein isolate, whey protein concentrate, and why protein hydrolysate. Anyone have a clue as to whether this will meet my needs? I'm new enough out of surgery that I'm drinking a shake a day to get all my protein in but I don't have a nut to ask and I couldn't find anything on line about this specific brand (other than from the company I purchased from and they claim it's very good).

It isn't really that this protein is "bad" for you BUT it doesn't include some of the essential amino acids that your body needs for optimum health. Yes, there is some isolate in there but the question is how much? We really don't know. The other two proteins there are the ones that don't include some of what our bodies need and not just my nutritionist says it isn't a good choice, the national health organizations out there say it isn't.

There are better choices out there. This protein is also harder for your body to absorb so though they tell you there are 42 gms of protein in those vials chances are you aren't getting 42 grams and you really have no idea how much of that you are absorbing.

I guess my personal feelings on all of this are...IF you can't get your protein in any other way this is better than nothing BUT if you can get your protein in by use of other supplements out there that are whey ISOLATES, well then that is the much better option.

I just don't feel that these are the best choice if you have other options. For myself I would not use them just because they are the quick and easy way to get my protein in...they would ONLY be used as a VERY last resort.

Just my take on this.

...btw, the information I posted did come from my nutritionist who is a trained bariatric nutritionist in a very progressive bariatric paractice. She will actually be presenting this very topic at a national bariatric conference this year. So I trust what she is telling me because this is something she has specifically researched recently.

Just a reminder of my first post...these are the products that have a really low score and are not the best option for us.

Some proteins such as COLLAGEN or HYDROLYZED COLLAGEN protein are

missing one of the EAAs entirely. So the PDCAAS for collagen is zero.

Collagen is often the main ingredient in protein supplements that come

in a liquid form, and they usually have lower PDCAAS scores.

Here are some collagen products that have lower PDCAAS scores:

New Whey and Profect1: These products appear to have a PDCAAS score of

5 or 6 out of 100. Lab analyses of several samples suggest that about

94% of their protein, by weight, is from collagen.

Proteinex2: The Proteinex OTC products appear to get protein only from

hydrolyzed collagen, so their PDCAAS score is 0 or virtually 0.

Pro-Stat 64 / Pro-Stat 1013: These products appear to have a PDCAAS

score of about 37 out of 100.

The BEST products to purchase are products made from whey protein

ISOLATE (not concentrate) and soy protein ISOLATE.

Edited by MiladyB

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I stopped in to my local GNC the other day to pick up some isopure singles to sample.. the gentleman in front of me was buying some gigantic container of some protein supplement or other.

They were sampling Papaya enzymes that day and they told the guy that the enzymes in these little chewable tablets help the body access the protein in the supplements, allowing us to absorb more.

To me, this sounded like a snake oil claim... but I figured I'd put this out there.. see if anyone has heard of this. I was going to email my nut, but forgot about it till this thread popped up.

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I stopped in to my local GNC the other day to pick up some isopure singles to sample.. the gentleman in front of me was buying some gigantic container of some protein supplement or other.

They were sampling Papaya enzymes that day and they told the guy that the enzymes in these little chewable tablets help the body access the protein in the supplements, allowing us to absorb more.

To me, this sounded like a snake oil claim... but I figured I'd put this out there.. see if anyone has heard of this. I was going to email my nut, but forgot about it till this thread popped up.

Kel, I actually emailed my nutritionist awhile back about using papaya enzymes. She asked around a bit and talked to the surgeons but none of them really heard of any pros or cons to using it. My nutritionist said she would see if she could turn up any information when she went to the bariatric conference.

For myself I'm kinda hesitent to add in things unless it is recommended by someone with some kind of medical support backing what they are saying.

I've jumped at way too many "Pie-in-the-sky" things in my quest to lose weight and it didn't serve my health or body well...for me I'm determined to do this the "right" way. I want to know what I am doing to my body and I want to educate myself as much as possible to do what is best for my health.

Just my 2 cents...

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Kel, I actually emailed my nutritionist awhile back about using papaya enzymes. She asked around a bit and talked to the surgeons but none of them really heard of any pros or cons to using it. My nutritionist said she would see if she could turn up any information when she went to the bariatric conference.

For myself I'm kinda hesitent to add in things unless it is recommended by someone with some kind of medical support backing what they are saying.

I've jumped at way too many "Pie-in-the-sky" things in my quest to lose weight and it didn't serve my health or body well...for me I'm determined to do this the "right" way. I want to know what I am doing to my body and I want to educate myself as much as possible to do what is best for my health.

Just my 2 cents...

I'd love to know what she finds out when your nutritionist goes to that conference!

I've used the papaya to help with naseua on occasion, but that's about it.

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I'd love to know what she finds out when your nutritionist goes to that conference!

I've used the papaya to help with naseua on occasion, but that's about it.

I'll let you know if I hear anything back from her Kel. I do have one other source I can ask about this. I have an acquaintance who is a physician who specializes in nutritional deficiences. If I get a chance I'll send him off an email and see if he has any words of wisdom. He has been a really great resource for me in the past and is always willing to answer my abundance of questions. :)

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Great info Beth. I have an entire 12 pack of the New Whey vials...and they're going back to the store for a refund! :eek:

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> On 17-Jun-2008 10:01:04 Susan Dealy wrote:

> On the bariatric web site support group I came accross this post stating that Profect's protein isn't well absorbed by bariatric patients. Please read and comment so I can let others know if this isn't true.

Here's the answer from the company:

Thanks, Suzanne (gastric bypass patient) Our response is below. You are welcome to share it with anyone you like. regarding Profect Protein vials.

Actinase is a patent-pending formula that combines three, enzymatically-hydrolyzed proteins: collagen isolate, whey isolate and casein isolate. The combination of the three hydrolyzed proteins yields an ingredient that contains all essential and all non-essential amino acids found in protein. The combination also yields a protein that is more bioavailable (i.e. readily digestible and absorbable) than whey protein or casein protein alone. A significant body of evidence supports this [e.g., Zaloga GP. Studies comparing intact protein, peptide and amino acid formulas. In: Bounous G. (ed). Elemental Diets in Clinical Situations. Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press; 1993.]

Further, the amino acid profile of a protein is only one of several considerations when selecting proteins. Some proteins are indigestible and essentially devoid of nutritional value in spite of their amino acid profile. Egg albumin is one example. The "white" of an egg is mostly protein � before cooking it is in its original, biologically active form. When an egg is cooked, the heat causes the protein molecules to denature, rendering it difficult for the body to digest and absorb (as evidenced by gastrointestinal distress experienced by many consumers who eat eggs).

Whey protein is another example. Whey protein also denatures when pasteurized, unless it has been hydrolyzed to create stable, low molecular weight protein molecules. Actinase is one of only a few proteins on the market that is made entirely of hydrolyzed proteins. Hydrolyzed proteins are more expensive than standard proteins such as whey isolate and casein isolate.

Relative to digestion and absorption, the difference between whole protein and hydrolyzed protein is dramatic. If you would like to receive information on studies examining the differences, please feel free to email our research department at [email protected]

Jim Duffy

Protica, Inc.

Telephone: 610-832-2000 x711

Web Site: Protica Research

Web Store: Protica - Product Catalog

Product Site: www.Profect.com

-----Original Message-----

>

> Is all protein created equal?

>

>

> I sent an email off to the nutritionist in my surgeon's office yesterday. I wanted to ask her about these 3 oz protein vials so many seem to be taking after bariatric surgery. I was curious what she thought of them and if it was the kind of protein we should be using after surgery. She quickly got back to me with an explaination about protein. I just thought I would share it with all of you. I know this is a pretty technical explaination but I thought some of you might like to know what kind of protein is best for us when it comes to protein supplements. Here is her post on the bariatric forum site:

>

> Not all protein has the same value to your body. The amino acid profile

> is the reason for this. Proteins are made of amino acids. There are 20

> different ones in the human body. Of the twenty, 9 of them must be

> consumed to meet your daily needs. These 9 amino acids are called

> Essential (EAA) or Indispensable.

>

> The 9 EAAs are needed in certain proportions. A protein scoring system

> called Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Scoring (or PDCAAS)

> was developed to show which products contain all the EAA and in the

> correct proportions. It is supported by the FDA, the World Health

> Organization, and perhaps most importantly, the Institute of Medicine at

> the National Academy of Sciences. The highest possible score is 100.

>

> -- Collagen Protein gets a 0 (the lowest possible score)

> -- Whey Protein Isolate gets 100 (the highest possible score)

>

> Some proteins such as COLLAGEN or HYDROLYZED COLLAGEN protein are

> missing one of the EAAs entirely. So the PDCAAS for collagen is zero.

> Collagen is often the main ingredient in protein supplements that come

> in a liquid form, and they usually have lower PDCAAS scores.

>

> Here are some collagen products that have lower PDCAAS scores:

>

> New Whey and Profect1: These products appear to have a PDCAAS score of

> 5 or 6 out of 100. Lab analyses of several samples suggest that about

> 94% of their protein, by weight, is from collagen.

>

> Proteinex2: The Proteinex OTC products appear to get protein only from

> hydrolyzed collagen, so their PDCAAS score is 0 or virtually 0.

>

> Pro-Stat 64 / Pro-Stat 1013: These products appear to have a PDCAAS

> score of about 37 out of 100.

>

> The BEST products to purchase are products made from whey protein

> ISOLATE (not concentrate) and soy protein ISOLATE.

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Thanks for adding your input. I think it is important for all of us to educate ourselves and then make our own personal decision.

The information that I originally posted was from my nutritionist who has recently been doing a study about these types of products. She presented at the national conference of Bariatrics this week in Washington DC. I really trust what she has to say and apparently the National Society of Bariatrics feels what she has to say is important, so for myself, I think I will be paying attention to what she had to say.

We all have to make what ever decision that we feel is best for ourselves. The important thing is to educate ourselves and make an informed decision about what is best for our health.

Edited by MiladyB

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I also wanted to add my "research" on those bullets/vials. :P I went to the Vitamin Shoppe on two different occasions. Each time (two different salesmen) I was told that those New Whey/Profect bullets were not the best protein. The first time the salesman told me he doesn't even recommend them at all!

Now, believe me, I understand not being able to tolerate the taste of protein. Frankly, I think it's utterly nasty. I did find one I finally like today (Syntrax Lemonade). But, before I got the Syntrax I figured that if the bullets taste good, getting some protein is better than none. Well, I tasted one sip of the Profect vial, and I almost threw up!! I was gagging like crazy, and I'm not even stapled yet! So, I will not be drinking those bullets. I guess not liking them is a good thing! :P

PS. I wanted to add that my NUT did recommend the vials. When meeting with her, I will be telling her my "findings." ;)

PSS. My thanks to Milady, b/c if it weren't for you I wouldn't have known about the bullets at all!

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I also wanted to add my "research" on those bullets/vials. :P I went to the Vitamin Shoppe on two different occasions. Each time (two different salesmen) I was told that those New Whey/Profect bullets were not the best protein. The first time the salesman told me he doesn't even recommend them at all!

Now, believe me, I understand not being able to tolerate the taste of protein. Frankly, I think it's utterly nasty. I did find one I finally like today (Syntrax Lemonade). But, before I got the Syntrax I figured that if the bullets taste good, getting some protein is better than none. Well, I tasted one sip of the Profect vial, and I almost threw up!! I was gagging like crazy, and I'm not even stapled yet! So, I will not be drinking those bullets. I guess not liking them is a good thing! :P

PS. I wanted to add that my NUT did recommend the vials. When meeting with her, I will be telling her my "findings." ;)

PSS. My thanks to Milady, b/c if it weren't for you I wouldn't have known about the bullets at all!

Nicole, please do share this information with your nutritionist. It's intersting to hear that even the salesmen from the Vitamin Shoppe weren't even recommending them. That kind of says something to me considering that they are looking to sell product. Kuddos to them for being honest.

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Nicole, please do share this information with your nutritionist. It's intersting to hear that even the salesmen from the Vitamin Shoppe weren't even recommending them. That kind of says something to me considering that they are looking to sell product. Kuddos to them for being honest.

Oh I will! :D And I was also impressed with the salesmen. They really new their stuff!

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With the desire to educate myself and others about what the best choices are for us, in regards to protein intake, I sent an email off to a friend of mine. Dr James Paauw is a physician who specializes in nutritional deficiencies. He works with patients within the hospital setting who have nutritional deficiencies. I sent him the responses from the New Whey company and the Unjury company in hopes of getting a better understanding of all of this and the importance of the scores put out there. Here is his response.

Beth,

You've wandered into a huge swamp of an issue. There is a lot of subtle twisting of words in both of these product statements. I could probably write several pages on this issue, but I'll be brief. The "efficiency" of a protein is measured as a protein score, which tells you how that protein measures up with regard to the 8 essential amino acids. The score is based on the protein's "limiting essential amino acid", that is, the one amino acid the protein has the least of compared to the reference value of an ideal amino acid dietary pattern for humans (generally, egg white is considered to have a value of 1, and is often considered the reference protein). Hence, a protein score measures a protein at it's '"weakest" point. If a protein has 100% of 7 of the essential amino acids, but only 30% of the 8th amino acid, it will get a score of 0.3, despite the fact that it appears to be a pretty good protein source, otherwise. (The New Whey product (the vials) have a score of 0.06) A key point to keep in mind when considering protein scores, is that they are really only critical to use if that is the only protein that one is eating. Hence, if all you eat is the 0.3 score protein, you'll obviously eventually develop a deficiency in that limiting amino acid, and start to break down your own muscle to get it. However, since almost no humans eat just one protein, this is not likely to happen. There is a concept in protein metabolism called "complementary proteins", which describes the blending of amino acid patterns from different proteins to make a new "whole". For example, you could combine our 0.3 score protein with another low score protein and have the perfect 1.0 combination. You may only need a small amount of the second protein to provide enough of that 8th amino acid to achieve that value of 1.0. Since most of us eat a pretty varied array of proteins, the amino acid score of any supplement we take may be pretty much a moot point. I think it is very unlikely that any of your group members will be deficient in any given essential amino acid, regardless of which protein supplement they take. Having said this, I think that you can see that this debate between companies is primarily a promotional ploy to gain market share. Hope this helps.

Jim

Now that being said, for myself I am really not concerned because I don't weigh heavily on the use of protein supplements. I do take some on occasions but I have many varied sources of protein. But for those of you out there who are really early postop and are pretty much totally weighing completely on the use of protein supplements to get in your protein. Well, I hope you pay attention to information in this thread. You may be causing yourself some harm if you are only using one protein supplement with a really low score. If you are using a wide variety of sources there probably isn't a huge concern, but if not? Well personally I feel it may not be the best choice for you. Just my own personal take on this subject.

Edited by MiladyB

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