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Kio

Carbs in "soft textures" stage

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I feel a bit silly asking this question, but my long-term experience with my body is clashing a bit with my post-op diet instructions, so I thought I'd throw this out there.

My first two days post op (stage 1) will be clear liquids in the hospital. My next 7-8 days post-op (stage 2) will be protein shakes, for which thank heaven - I don't even have to think about it.  I have several types here, and if I can't tolerate them, I can always try something else.

The 10 days after that is "soft textures 3a" and lists:  

  1. Fat-free Greek yogurt (without fruit chunks)
  2. Low-fat cottage cheese
  3. Part-skim ricotta cheese
  4. Tofu
  5. Vegetarian refried beans (black or pinto)
  6. Protein shakes and powders

So of those foods, I'm not going to eat tofu and I'm fine with the refried beans, protein shakes and powders. My question is about #1-3.  How important is it that I comply with the "fat free", "low-fat" and "part skim" bits? 

I like dairy and it doesn't seem to stall me when I'm losing weight the traditional way, but every time I have lost weight successfully in my entire life, it's been through low-carb, moderate fats, high protein dieting. When I see "fat free" "low fat" "part skim" I immediately assume the missing fat has been replaced by carbs, and my emotional reaction to that is super-negative.  I don't really want to do "low fat" if I don't have to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to abandon my post-op diet guidelines; I'm just wondering if it would be okay to bend them a little when it comes to choosing low-fat dairy items over whole milk dairy items. I'm interested in hearing what others did, and whether you think it affected your outcomes. My extensive anecdotal research (by which I mean: reading this forum obsessively) seems to indicate people have seen a lot of success doing low carb after gastric bypass.

(I've talked to my nutritionist about it, but she seems to be really skeptical of low-carb dieting and that makes me really skeptical of her advice.  She didn't veto the idea, but didn't wholly endorse it, either.) 

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23 minutes ago, Kio said:

I feel a bit silly asking this question, but my long-term experience with my body is clashing a bit with my post-op diet instructions, so I thought I'd throw this out there.

My first two days post op (stage 1) will be clear liquids in the hospital. My next 7-8 days post-op (stage 2) will be protein shakes, for which thank heaven - I don't even have to think about it.  I have several types here, and if I can't tolerate them, I can always try something else.

The 10 days after that is "soft textures 3a" and lists:  

  1. Fat-free Greek yogurt (without fruit chunks)
  2. Low-fat cottage cheese
  3. Part-skim ricotta cheese
  4. Tofu
  5. Vegetarian refried beans (black or pinto)
  6. Protein shakes and powders

So of those foods, I'm not going to eat tofu and I'm fine with the refried beans, protein shakes and powders. My question is about #1-3.  How important is it that I comply with the "fat free", "low-fat" and "part skim" bits? 

I like dairy and it doesn't seem to stall me when I'm losing weight the traditional way, but every time I have lost weight successfully in my entire life, it's been through low-carb, moderate fats, high protein dieting. When I see "fat free" "low fat" "part skim" I immediately assume the missing fat has been replaced by carbs, and my emotional reaction to that is super-negative.  I don't really want to do "low fat" if I don't have to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to abandon my post-op diet guidelines; I'm just wondering if it would be okay to bend them a little when it comes to choosing low-fat dairy items over whole milk dairy items. I'm interested in hearing what others did, and whether you think it affected your outcomes. My extensive anecdotal research (by which I mean: reading this forum obsessively) seems to indicate people have seen a lot of success doing low carb after gastric bypass.

(I've talked to my nutritionist about it, but she seems to be really skeptical of low-carb dieting and that makes me really skeptical of her advice.  She didn't veto the idea, but didn't wholly endorse it, either.) 

I think the lo fat recommendation: is that it is fewer calories and after all, the goal for most people is weight loss. Period. So low fat = more weight loss. There you have it. :D Not more complex than that!

The recent re-thinking about fats not being bad for you hasn't really percolated its way through these recommendations. But clearly full fat yogurt is more calories than low calorie yogurt. It may also be more delicious, or if the fats you eat are in the form of salmon, olives, nuts... it lowers mortality. But clearly there is a potential tension between fewer calories (faster weight loss) and the health benefits of a subset of fats.

Having said that, how have I voted with my proverbial feet? I eat cheese, well-cooked bacon, salami, and the odd pat of butter ... but all in extreme moderation. Also I cook in olive oil, eat olives, salmon, and nuts. When my weight loss gets too slow then I will likely axe these fats for a while. I don't think a diet devoid of fats is either sustainable (for reasons of dietary appeal) or healthy, if it means avoiding the good fats. But as a temporary measure avoiding even the good fats is probably fine. This is all from the perspective of being nearly 6 months out of surgery, not contemplating surgery. 

And i really, really agree with you, low carbs after bypass or sleeve is a winner. When I stall, I go to this space... and lose weight. My interpretation of others posting here is the same. There was a major, major article in the Lancet last week showing that higher carbohydrate intake was linked to higher mortality. Have not completely digested it, and not sure it is relevant to weight loss surgery in the short run after the surgery.  But I think carbos are increasingly OUT and good fats are IN.  In our context, protein+fats without carbos => ketosis and often weight loss. 

Not sure I agree with you that the decrement in fat calories is always replaced by carbs; plenty of low-fat Greek yogurt without any added sugar. (Perhaps have misinterpreted your post). At my local Whole Foods there must be 4 different low-fat, no added carbs, Greek or regular yogurt. I bought some and added Splenda during the weeks after my sleeve, worked very well. 

If you have been eating full fat foods then this may not apply to you... but for the better part of 30-40 years have been drinking skim milk and lo-fat yogurt. Even partial fat milk and yogurt tastes very rich to me. So (paradoxically) the reduced fat products are way rich for my tastebuds. My wife accidentally bought 2% milk and I can't drink it! 

So after all my blah-blah-blah, agree with you that ketogenic [high protein, low or no carbs] dieting works, but not sure I agree that lo-fat = added higher carbs. I think you might be surprised checking stuff out at the market re: finding low-fat, no added carbo yogurt. Hoping this is the case for you - Best wishes with upcoming surgery! 

 

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I don't do low fat anything. Sometimes they replace the fat they take out with carbs. I don't need that! If I ever totally stall out, I may consider cutting back on fat. But I'm finding I eat fewer calories when I have a decent fat intake, because it's satisfying. I don't think of fat as my enemy at all. 

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Like @BurgundyBoy and @Gretta, I eat fat. I eat quite a lot, actually, but I'm willing to switch that up later if it slows down my losses or (haven forebid) causes gains.

As far as dairy goes, it's not really a question of adding carbs back in to counterbalance the low fat (like is done with snack foods and salad dressing, for example), but that the balance of macros is a bit different. I find myself eating mostly 2% yogurt and milk - they taste fine to me and the balance of macros is fine. Fat free Greek yogurt has more protein and more carbs (because it has no fat), and the same I think with other dairy. Full fat has fewer carbs but also usually less protein. That's if you're eating The unadulterated stuff - not the flavored kind. Or Oikos Triple Zero if you like your yogurt more processed. Check out some nutrition labels and see what your palate likes.

For me, low carb is what *works* for me. It makes me less hungry. It doesn't give me cravings. But I'm also not worried about calories right now: I don't eat much, so it doesn't hurt to have more caloric foods. Yesterday I had tuna with real mayo - the mayo was like 15% of my day's calories! One tablespoon! So I can see very where that might get worrisome later, I guess. 

In the first few weeks after surgery? I can't imagine extra fat would be a problem since you're eating so little at that stage anyway. I upped my fat intake at one month because my skin had gotten really dry just from eating so little. 

NUTs are often anti-low-carb it sounds like (mine is, as are those of many I've seen on here), but it always feels to me like their training is connected more strongly to ideas of nutrition people held in past decades. You know, the kind that led to people eating entire packages of Smartwell lowfat cookies, big plates of pasta marinara, and bagels with fat free cream cheese <_< I just know that in the long run, carbs make me want more carbs. 

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I also eat fat. While I have low fat milk, every other dairy is full fat for me. My dietician also isn't a fan of low carb, to the point that she nags me relentlessly about upping my carbs. Mind you when I did that (to a lesser degree than she was asking for), I had a real energy boost, got way more physical work done.....and lost even more weight! Needless to say she was unhappy as she wants me maintaining weight rather than losing any more.

In my opinion you need to do what's right for you. If you are unhappy then chances are higher you'll go off plan more quickly. A good dietician or nutritionist should be able to adapt your plan in ways that suit your personal preferences and beliefs.

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I do not do fat free anything.  My milk and Greek Yogurt is 2% and I use real butter and EVOO.

I have never worried about carbs except those from starchy sources (I do not eat potatoes, breads, pasta, rice, crackers etc.).  I limit beans to a scant 1/4 cup but eat vegetables and fruit freely.

 

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As others have said, I don't do low or fat free anything. Low carb is the way to go. 

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Sounds like basic agreement on the low carb plan, but maybe I should read my yogurt labels a little more closely! I think I may have been comparing plain greek yogurt to flavored nonfat greek yogurt?  With the brand I use (wallaby) that always has way more carbs than the whole milk plain, but that kind of makes sense.  

Thanks everyone for the detailed answers - I feel better about the longterm plan!

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58 minutes ago, Kio said:

Sounds like basic agreement on the low carb plan, but maybe I should read my yogurt labels a little more closely! I think I may have been comparing plain greek yogurt to flavored nonfat greek yogurt?  With the brand I use (wallaby) that always has way more carbs than the whole milk plain, but that kind of makes sense.  

Thanks everyone for the detailed answers - I feel better about the longterm plan!

Most flavored yogurt has more carbs than protein because of all the added sugar. If you want flavored yogurt, buy plain greek yogurt and add your own flavoring. That way you can control how much sugar you are adding. Or, you can use sugar free sweeteners and flavorings.  

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56 minutes ago, Stephtay said:

Most flavored yogurt has more carbs than protein because of all the added sugar. If you want flavored yogurt, buy plain greek yogurt and add your own flavoring. That way you can control how much sugar you are adding. Or, you can use sugar free sweeteners and flavorings.  

Right!  I've been looking through Eggface's blog for recipes and I've found a lot of uses for those; I may have to get some.  Up till now I've "flavored" my plain greek yogurt by throwing in a bunch of berries and then smashing half of them and stirring.  But it'll be a while before I can get away with that again!

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Torani has some great sugar free syrups. Two more days, @Kio!

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14 hours ago, Kio said:

Right!  I've been looking through Eggface's blog for recipes and I've found a lot of uses for those; I may have to get some.  Up till now I've "flavored" my plain greek yogurt by throwing in a bunch of berries and then smashing half of them and stirring.  But it'll be a while before I can get away with that again!

I found so many great recipes and idea on Eggface! Good for you! 

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16 hours ago, Gretta said:

Torani has some great sugar free syrups. Two more days, @Kio!

@Kio These syrups are great, strong recommendation. Not much time to go now. Good luck and post as soon as you are able after your surgery!

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