Zyia

Interesting Study - Gastric Bypass radically improves gut flora

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https://sci-hub.cc/10.1038/ismej.2017.71 - Mirror, so you don't have to pay, link. 

 

As quoted - "An NIH-funded study published this week in Nature's journal of the International Society for Microbial Ecology (Sci-Hub mirror), researchers find that most (and possibly all) of the weight-loss can be attributed to a better, more diverse gut microbiome following the surgery, which they attribute to a reduction in gut acidity, which makes the gut more hospitable to bacteria that are associated with weight-loss." - http://boingboing.net/2017/05/26/more-lactobacillus.html

It's an interesting, if not long, story. I remember at my seminar, they didn't quite know how Gastric Bypass worked in regards to losing weight, just that it worked. It's nice to read the science behind it, and also be the benefit of said science. Regardless, a good read. 

 

 

 

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Thanks, @Zyia! I love reading research about WLS.

I've read articles on this study, but not the original study itself, so I'm glad to see this. 

Do you know if there's anywhere here on TTF where links to research are stored? I know this stuff isn't for everyone, as scientific research journals are not super accessible in terms of readability, but I'd love to see a whole collection of this stuff. 

*edit: This is a newly published study, so I must have read articles on previous studies.

Edited by Jen581791

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3 minutes ago, Zyia said:

https://sci-hub.cc/10.1038/ismej.2017.71 - Mirror, so you don't have to pay, link. 

 

As quoted - "An NIH-funded study published this week in Nature's journal of the International Society for Microbial Ecology (Sci-Hub mirror), researchers find that most (and possibly all) of the weight-loss can be attributed to a better, more diverse gut microbiome following the surgery, which they attribute to a reduction in gut acidity, which makes the gut more hospitable to bacteria that are associated with weight-loss." - http://boingboing.net/2017/05/26/more-lactobacillus.html

It's an interesting, if not long, story. I remember at my seminar, they didn't quite know how Gastric Bypass worked in regards to losing weight, just that it worked. It's nice to read the science behind it, and also be the benefit of said science. Regardless, a good read. 

 

 

 

If you take the gut bacteria from normal weight people and put them into obese people, the insulin resistance of the obese people improves. Bacteria from obese persons also extract more nutrients from the normally indigestible fiber and process them so the people get more calories (as butyrate). I'll dig these up. 

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Thanks for posting this @Zyia interesting read!

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50 minutes ago, Zyia said:

https://sci-hub.cc/10.1038/ismej.2017.71 - Mirror, so you don't have to pay, link. 

 

As quoted - "An NIH-funded study published this week in Nature's journal of the International Society for Microbial Ecology (Sci-Hub mirror), researchers find that most (and possibly all) of the weight-loss can be attributed to a better, more diverse gut microbiome following the surgery, which they attribute to a reduction in gut acidity, which makes the gut more hospitable to bacteria that are associated with weight-loss." - http://boingboing.net/2017/05/26/more-lactobacillus.html

It's an interesting, if not long, story. I remember at my seminar, they didn't quite know how Gastric Bypass worked in regards to losing weight, just that it worked. It's nice to read the science behind it, and also be the benefit of said science. Regardless, a good read. 

 

 

 

Great read, thanks for posting it!!

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20 hours ago, BurgundyBoy said:

If you take the gut bacteria from normal weight people and put them into obese people, the insulin resistance of the obese people improves. Bacteria from obese persons also extract more nutrients from the normally indigestible fiber and process them so the people get more calories (as butyrate). I'll dig these up. 

For those with a strong stomach......faecal matter transplant!!!!!  I can't bring myself to go there even though it is being touted to help with many health issues including obesity.

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6 minutes ago, Aussie H said:

For those with a strong stomach......faecal matter transplant!!!!!  I can't bring myself to go there even though it is being touted to help with many health issues including obesity.

sick0022.gif

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No doubt in the future we'll all be taking pills with freeze-dried bacteria... not a faecal transplant (although I suspect the genuine stuff will work better) :rolleyes:

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9 hours ago, BurgundyBoy said:

No doubt in the future we'll all be taking pills with freeze-dried bacteria... not a faecal transplant (although I suspect the genuine stuff will work better) :rolleyes:

At the moment they are making pills from healthy BMI people's feaces. No way in the world would I be swallowing one. 

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On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:35 AM, Aussie H said:

For those with a strong stomach......faecal matter transplant!!!!!  I can't bring myself to go there even though it is being touted to help with many health issues including obesity.

We called them Poop Pills in micro. Who knew encapsulated turds could be a treatment instead of a punishment? Reminds me of the credits in "Polyester." They (poop pills) can cure C. diff, but I do not want to be the first in line for this. Much prefer yogurt to enhance my flora.

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Apropos taking yogurt, I took Culturelle Lactobacillus Gut Health twice a day starting a week before, and 10 days after, surgery. Had not one day of diarrhea or constipation, except for when I also took opiates for pain. Not one day of painful gas or gut rumbling or any other disorders. Lactobacillus is the kind of bacteria most commonly found in probiotic yogurts. 

The pertinent question is, why should I eat your poop? I mean: if I don't have C diff and horrible diarrhea, why should I eat your poop?  My guess is in the long run capsules with 20-40 different bacteria will be commercialized. The yuck factor can be dealt with by using lab-grown bacteria...

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My probiotic has 10 different strains of bacteria. I've heard that upping the number of strains is a good idea - you done any reading on that, @BurgundyBoy

The transplants are usually done using the opposite route, as far as I've read - does that sound less gross or more? :lol: 

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55 minutes ago, Jen581791 said:

My probiotic has 10 different strains of bacteria. I've heard that upping the number of strains is a good idea - you done any reading on that, @BurgundyBoy

The transplants are usually done using the opposite route, as far as I've read - does that sound less gross or more? :lol: 

Not clear from studies yet if mixtures better than one good bacteria, though it's an appealing construct. Data's just not there. 

Fecal transplants can go either way... :rolleyes:

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@BurgundyBoy Here are a couple of articles on the microbiome and probiotics with information that you may already have but that may be of interest to others. They're a few years old, but include info I haven't seen in a lot of other places. 

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/gut-microbiome-bacteria-weight-loss/ - Long, but full of background info on the microbiome, things that affect it, and how it works - including its relationship to weight, weight loss, and obesity.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/should-you-take-probiotics-supplement/ - Shorter, but with more info on probiotics, how they might work, and the state of the industry.

Interesting stuff.

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1 hour ago, Jen581791 said:

@BurgundyBoy Here are a couple of articles on the microbiome and probiotics with information that you may already have but that may be of interest to others. They're a few years old, but include info I haven't seen in a lot of other places. 

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/gut-microbiome-bacteria-weight-loss/ - Long, but full of background info on the microbiome, things that affect it, and how it works - including its relationship to weight, weight loss, and obesity.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/should-you-take-probiotics-supplement/ - Shorter, but with more info on probiotics, how they might work, and the state of the industry.

Interesting stuff.

@Jen581791 The evidence for the Culturelle product, lactobacillus GG, is very very strong when it comes to preventing or ameliorating C difficile or certain kinds of diarrhea. That's why I took it - to prevent surgery-related C diff. (No, this has not been explicitly studied, although there are lots of studies around probiotics and intestinal surgery). The evidence for the other preparations in the market is much weaker - not that they might not be good, it's in large part they haven't been studied so much. But clearly these studies have not been focused on the larger issue of what is the healthiest microbiome for a person to have after having had WLS. 

Many of us posting here have had gas pains or bowel disturbances after surgery. That strikes me as the simplest thing to study, e.g. can probiotics reduce the risks of having those. But then the long-term question about microbiomes....  in some ways a more interesting query, and one harder to answer. 

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On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 8:33 AM, BurgundyBoy said:

The pertinent question is, why should I eat your poop? I mean: if I don't have C diff and horrible diarrhea, why should I eat your poop?

I am sure this is more than you ever wanted to know about Poop Pills, but you eat someone else's encapsulated poop because they have the needed bacteria to fight C Diff. that your colon doesn't. It's sort of an immunological transplant, if you will, usually done because someone has had repeated C Diff infections and the traditional treatments (antibiotics) do not work. Probiotics won't replace or grow the needed bacteria to cure it at that point. It's actually kind of awesome.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3365524/

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On 5/27/2017 at 0:30 PM, Zyia said:

... researchers find that most (and possibly all) of the weight-loss can be attributed to a better, more diverse gut microbiome following the surgery, which they attribute to a reduction in gut acidity, which makes the gut more hospitable to bacteria that are associated with weight-loss." - http://boingboing.net/2017/05/26/more-lactobacillus.html

It's an interesting, if not long, story. I remember at my seminar, they didn't quite know how Gastric Bypass worked in regards to losing weight, just that it worked. It's nice to read the science behind it, and also be the benefit of said science. Regardless, a good read. 

 

 

 

Just circling back to @Zyia's original post, and tying in the postings on fecal transplants and the like (@slars04) , it would be cool if as part of the WLS "package" people got a dose of the bacteria best adapted to post-surgery life and weight loss (or weight loss and subsequent long term health!). 

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Thanks for sharing @Zyia - I've learned a lot of the effects of the surgeries before and since the operation but always great to learn more and this looks like a very interesting new take on possible results of RNY.

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