CZJ

from band to bypass

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\hi everyone - my name is Cath and Iam thinking of having a gastric bypass.  Had a band fitted 8 years ago ( which has minimal fluid in now, the smallest amount allowed) and have gotten nowhere with it and.it prevents me eating a variety of healthy stuff but  still allows me to stuff my face with crisps, chocolate, cake and even having loads of adjustments over the years, Iam either throwing up after a couple of mouthfuls or can still eat the bad stuff.  Your thoughts would be very much appreciated - Many thanks - Cath x

Edited by CZJ
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Welcome cath!

the gastric band doesn't seem to be withstanding the test of time and many get theirs removed or revised. However, I have to say that none of the WLS available will control what you choose to put in your mouth. With bypass or the sleeve, you can still eat all the foods you've listed up there. You may lose during your honeymoon but the weight will come right back on the further out you get. 

WLS is only one piece of the puzzle. You need to do the head work in order to be successful. And it's not head work that is ever done. You have to maintain your mental game as well as your physical. They are very much intertwined. I say this all with kindness, I am far from perfect and I fight the fight every single day. I just want you to know that there is hope. Do the headwork and get some strategies down to help you when you want that chocolate or chips or whatever. Some are able to eventually enjoy those things in moderation once they hit maintenance. Some cannot and stay completely away from them. You have to do whatever works for you. 

If you don't do the head work and really and truly commit to changing your diet and your relationship with food? Your surgery will be wasted.  I hope you stick around here and learn from all of us who have been where you are.  Good luck!

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Hi Bellamoma - thanks so much for your most thoughtful reply!

Yeah, I totally take on board what youre saying, and one of the reasons why I considered a revision was that with the band, even the most moderate restriction causes me to bring up food Ive just eaten and its always 'normal' food, as in  a healthy dinner that I struggle with keeping down.  So I find myself unable to retrain and fill myself with the good stuff rather than resort to rubbish. 

I wonder if you are finding this with the sleeve?  Do you find it enables you to eat lots of rubbish without you suffering from dumping?  Its the dumping part that I figure might assist me in my battle - if I know Ill get sick by eating rubbish by suffering dumping then I'm a lot less likely to do so.  I do get what you mention about getting the head stuff right too.

Tell me a little bit (or as much as you can) about how you are finding things with the sleeve please.

 

I do appreciate your time and wise words - many many thanks :)

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53 minutes ago, CZJ said:

Hi Bellamoma - thanks so much for your most thoughtful reply!

Yeah, I totally take on board what youre saying, and one of the reasons why I considered a revision was that with the band, even the most moderate restriction causes me to bring up food Ive just eaten and its always 'normal' food, as in  a healthy dinner that I struggle with keeping down.  So I find myself unable to retrain and fill myself with the good stuff rather than resort to rubbish. 

I wonder if you are finding this with the sleeve?  Do you find it enables you to eat lots of rubbish without you suffering from dumping?  Its the dumping part that I figure might assist me in my battle - if I know Ill get sick by eating rubbish by suffering dumping then I'm a lot less likely to do so.  I do get what you mention about getting the head stuff right too.

Tell me a little bit (or as much as you can) about how you are finding things with the sleeve please.

 

I do appreciate your time and wise words - many many thanks :)

NO weight loss surgery is going to let you eat what you want, whenever you want. You need to realize that right now. So I think any surgery you take on at this point will likely be wasted, until as you say you "retrain" yourself, instead of eating the rubbish. Believe me I know it is difficult, I am in the middle of my 6-mo pre-op diet right now, and have had to face some difficult truths about myself as far as my eating habits go. But my surgeon won't do the operation without some results on my part, and I'm determined to make it happen. I have been successful so far in changing my ways, but it has been incredibly difficult, surprisingly so. But each new victory makes the next battle that much easier. But you must deal with your head issues- the part that says "eat this eat that eat eat eat" even though your stomach is fine. There's no reason you can't start working on that now.

Sleevers don't really experience dumping, if I recall correctly. And you're right, dumping can be a powerful tool in motivating you to stay away from certain foods. But you really need to have your eating behaviors well in hand, as much as possible, before a revision I think. Surgery is only a tool-- you will only get it out of it, what you put into it. It won't do all the work for you.

Best wishes to you my friend.

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5 hours ago, bellamoma said:

Welcome cath!

the gastric band doesn't seem to be withstanding the test of time and many get theirs removed or revised. However, I have to say that none of the WLS available will control what you choose to put in your mouth. With bypass or the sleeve, you can still eat all the foods you've listed up there. You may lose during your honeymoon but the weight will come right back on the further out you get. 

WLS is only one piece of the puzzle. You need to do the head work in order to be successful. And it's not head work that is ever done. You have to maintain your mental game as well as your physical. They are very much intertwined. I say this all with kindness, I am far from perfect and I fight the fight every single day. I just want you to know that there is hope. Do the headwork and get some strategies down to help you when you want that chocolate or chips or whatever. Some are able to eventually enjoy those things in moderation once they hit maintenance. Some cannot and stay completely away from them. You have to do whatever works for you. 

If you don't do the head work and really and truly commit to changing your diet and your relationship with food? Your surgery will be wasted.  I hope you stick around here and learn from all of us who have been where you are.  Good luck!

This is excellent.

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3 hours ago, Michael_A said:

NO weight loss surgery is going to let you eat what you want, whenever you want. You need to realize that right now. So I think any surgery you take on at this point will likely be wasted, until as you say you "retrain" yourself, instead of eating the rubbish. Believe me I know it is difficult, I am in the middle of my 6-mo pre-op diet right now, and have had to face some difficult truths about myself as far as my eating habits go. But my surgeon won't do the operation without some results on my part, and I'm determined to make it happen. I have been successful so far in changing my ways, but it has been incredibly difficult, surprisingly so. But each new victory makes the next battle that much easier. But you must deal with your head issues- the part that says "eat this eat that eat eat eat" even though your stomach is fine. There's no reason you can't start working on that now.

Sleevers don't really experience dumping, if I recall correctly. And you're right, dumping can be a powerful tool in motivating you to stay away from certain foods. But you really need to have your eating behaviors well in hand, as much as possible, before a revision I think. Surgery is only a tool-- you will only get it out of it, what you put into it. It won't do all the work for you.

Best wishes to you my friend.

Michael - perhaps read my dialogue before you reply.

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Hi there, like you I had little result with my band that I had for 5 years.  I am currently just on 3 wks post op from mini gastric bypass. This took me over a year to come to the decision. I'm so glad I did although I am having some issues, but know it will be successful in the long run. Like the others that have posted, I too have had to realise this is only a 'part' of the journey & am working through food selection with help from a dietician.  Best wishes 

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10 hours ago, CZJ said:

\hi everyone - my name is Cath and Iam thinking of having a gastric bypass.  Had a band fitted 8 years ago and have gotten nowhere with it.  It still allows me to stuff my face with crisps, chocolate, cake and even having loads of adjustments over the years, Iam either throwing up after a couple of mouthfuls or can still eat the bad stuff.  Your thoughts would be very much appreciated - Many thanks - Cath x

With all due respect Cath, your head doesn't seem to be in the right place YET to undergo a revisional surgery. It really does sound from your post that you need to work on the head aspect of weightloss first.

Revisional surgery is far higher risk than what my surgeon refers to as "virgin WLS". As others have said already you can eat and drink your way around any WLS. Not everyone experiences dumping syndrome from Gastric Bypass, so you really shouldn't think that is part of the new tool you'd be getting. You could be sorely disappointed if you are counting on dumping syndrome to give you control and then don't get it. Bands are still very common in both the UK and Australia, and for those folk who don't have surgical complications they can still work well if used properly. Please understand that most surgeons will also be looking at between 3-6 months between band removal and bypass surgery in order to allow the stomach to heal enough before adding staple lines. In all likelihood you'd gain a lot in the interim. Are you really ready for that?

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its interesting to note that not all GB patients get dumping syndrome. Is this your experience Aussie H?  would you tell me something of the reasons you have for having wls?  Surely if my 'head was in the right place' I would have no need at all for considering surgery? 

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7 hours ago, Kcee67 said:

Hi there, like you I had little result with my band that I had for 5 years.  I am currently just on 3 wks post op from mini gastric bypass. This took me over a year to come to the decision. I'm so glad I did although I am having some issues, but know it will be successful in the long run. Like the others that have posted, I too have had to realise this is only a 'part' of the journey & am working through food selection with help from a dietician.  Best wishes 

Hi Kcee - thanks for your reply - would you feel comfortable telling me more about why you chose to have the mini bypass and what it was about the band that didn't work for you?

The other day I was eating a piece of steamed fish, and had to run to the bathroom mid-meal, its so frustrating.  Did you find eating healthy stuff difficult physically for you with the band.  I have the tiniest amount of fluid left in mine so I'm feeling pretty desparate.

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Hi Cath,

to be honest I also had a awful time with vomiting with the band.  I did have trouble often eating protein.  Mind you I had it removed by a different surgeon who told me that it had never been placed on the correct angle nor was it a suitable size. During the 5 years I had it deflated for probably 2 years.  It did cause a lot of reflux, and many times I would think it was cardiac pain. I  saw a cardiologist, had many tests  all which were ok.  It was found I had a hiatal hernia which may have been caused through the vomiting. 

I told myself after having the band removed that that was it with WLS.  Fast forward to this year, I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia & osteoarthritis which was really hindering my ability to exercise effectively & found the weight just kept piling on. So got in touch with the surgeon ( who I'd chatted to last year re hiatal hernia repair &  'chatted about WLS' was booked in. 

My first choice would have been to have a sleeve but due to my reflux the Dr explained I wouldn't be suitable for this so the next step was the mini bypass.  So far a little reflux, getting use to 'bodily' function changes lol, but know I've made the right decision.

2 weeks on optifast before , and its been nearly 3 wks since the op & so far down 12 kgs. 

I hope that may help? More than happy to answer questions that I can. :)

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3 hours ago, CZJ said:

its interesting to note that not all GB patients get dumping syndrome. Is this your experience Aussie H?  would you tell me something of the reasons you have for having wls?  Surely if my 'head was in the right place' I would have no need at all for considering surgery? 

If you search through posts here you'll find many post op gastric bypass people don't experience dumping.

As for me, my revision to bypass is less than 3 weeks away. I have staple line dehiscence from my original surgery back in 1986, plus an impenetrable stoma which causes severe regurgitation. Gastric bypass is my only option to be able eat healthy solids again. I currently choose to live on VLCD meal replacement shakes and have done so now for over 6 months, rather than relying on unhealthy slider options. 

As obese people WLS patients have more challenges going on in their bodies than merely the calories they take in. Surgery changes our bodies and the way we metabolise food, along with as yet often unexplained hormonal changes that happen with surgery. Food intake is such an important part of the equation but it isn't where surgical changes end. To be successful you need to force yourself to make changes in your food choices. This can and should be done before surgery. Having surgery doesn't make the choice of what goes into your stomach any easier. It's a battle you have to fight in you head, and having surgery won't change that.

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Somewhere I read that one third of RNY folks have dumping. I've had it happen only once, for which I am grateful.

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thanks for your reply tmcgee - so can you tell me what has helped you since having GP?  A few people have mentioned that I need to getmy head in the right place before considering surgery - but apart from hopefully being able to eat more protein and less carbs (which I canwith a band) I'm unsure what that means exactly?  Ifmy head is in the right place surely my need for any surgery is negated and I can loose weight by virtue of this alone.  What does your surgery enable you to do that you weren't able to before?  I appreciate your thoughts

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The program I used was extremely comprehensive about preparing us for success, psychologically, nutritionallly, informationally, and medically with all of the appropriate tests. They were looking for as much success as I was.

On a daily basis for me now, its protein and water first, followed by getting carbs from fruit and vegetables. I had no other instructions beyond that and I already know that complex carbs are a much better choice than simple carbs, and I don't pay much attention to fat content, nor do I eat much of it.

I hope you have the revision and have success with it, it must be difficult having been through the band process. It has a very low success rate.

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Hi Tom, thanks for your reply - Ok, so I understand that you prioritise protein, then carbs from fruit and veg, but couldn't you havedone that before having surgery - I'm not understanding what advantage GB has,    Yes, my band experience has been very frustrating indeed

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Just now, CZJ said:

Hi Tom, thanks for your reply - Ok, so I understand that you prioritise protein, then carbs from fruit and veg, but couldn't you havedone that before having surgery - I'm not understanding what advantage GB has,    Yes, my band experience has been very frustrating indeed

I literally can't eat very much anymore, if I try, it comes back up. I got to be 165 pounds overweight by out of control portion sizes.  When I was 20 years younger, I could take the weight off, it's just been impossible in recent years no matter what I tried. Yes, I did lose 20 pounds in the 2 months prior to surgery, like I had many times before, I just couldn't sustain it. I have no regrets except not doing it ten years sooner. I feel good, am off almost every single med I used to take, and I'm looking forward to the rest of my life.

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ah, ok - that sounds like a good result Tom.  Do you feel satiated when you've eaten all your new stomach can take or are you still 'hungry'.  With my band, although I'm retching and bringing up food, I'm still genuinely hungry and in need of food - good healthy stuff.  I really hope you don't mind me firing so many questions at you but I'm just trying to understand since its such a big deal and an expensive one too.

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I suspect the reason people have jumped on your original post and talked about getting your headspace right is because you are currently making very poor food choices. I get that you're experiencing very real problems with your band and that is leading you in the direction of slider high carb foods....believe me that's where I was just six months ago. Couldn't get in meat or vegetables without very real and intense pain, yet the high carbs went down quite easily.....and the weight went up! Where we differ so far is that I made the choice to stop eating the carbs and find much healthier alternatives so I could focus on higher nutrient foods. Using VLCDs allowed me to get in the good foods while simultaneously dropping my hunger levels. The liquid shakes don't hurt my stomach or cause the acids that meat and vegetables did. The carbs you are filling up on are actually increasing your hunger levels. You need to stop choosing them now and find better nutritious foods to feed your body. There's a very high likelihood that you are actually malnourished making the choices you say you currently are. Gastric bypass is just a tool in the same way your lapband is. It will reduce your capacity for eating in the short term, unlike you band though it will also not allow your intestines to absorb as many of the calories as you take in. That said, without good satiating food choices in the long term it won't work for you. Having the surgery won't help your brain make you choose the best foods.....you still have to be the one to take responsibility for that.

Surgery or no surgery, we all fight our food demons every day for the rest of our lives. Fighting them before having surgery gets you in a better place when you actually have surgery, as well as the consequent weightloss making your surgery safer to perform. Plus surgery is a complete waste of money and a risk to your life if you have surgery but can't change how you choose to eat. It is the metabolic changes that make the surgery such a useful adjunct to dietary changes, and those metabolic changes that occur even baffle the medical profession so can't easily be explained. The problem is that the window of opportunity to get maximum benefit from those changes is relatively short ( often referred to as the honeymoon period), if you get your head around how to make the right choices before surgery then you're in the place to make the best use of this small window of opportunity. For many this means having therapy to find out why they make the food choices they do, and find alternative strategies to deal with any other issues that lead them to making inappropriate choices. If you regain after surgical intervention it is often even harder to lose weight than if you'd never had WLS in the first place.

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Been down the therapy route over several years.  I think my problem is a combined emotional/physical one.  Physical because my band doesn't allow me to eat normally (my chicken salad is discarded, half eaten in the kitchen as I write this)  I weigh more now than I did when I had the band done.  I do know what I need to eat, but getting it down is dreadful, and embarrassing when I have to disappear to the ladies room. over the years I have used VLC diets on several occasions for a few months at a time.  Harsh but effective, though energy levels were very low. Thanks for your thoughts Aussie

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22 hours ago, CZJ said:

ah, ok - that sounds like a good result Tom.  Do you feel satiated when you've eaten all your new stomach can take or are you still 'hungry'.  With my band, although I'm retching and bringing up food, I'm still genuinely hungry and in need of food - good healthy stuff.  I really hope you don't mind me firing so many questions at you but I'm just trying to understand since its such a big deal and an expensive one too.

I don't have an appetite, I'm never hungry, and what I do eat fills me up. I know that I'm much luckier than some folks when it comes to this, I feel fortunate.

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I was like you. I had a band placed in 2007 and removed in 2012. I got to a point that I couldn't even keep liquids down even with no saline in my band. even when it was completely empty I still could not get protein foods in. so I resorted to eating the garbage. After having my band removed I chose not to have another form of weight loss surgery. fast forward to 2016 I ballooned up to my highest weight of 320 pounds, I could hardly walk because of arthritis in my knees, I could not keep up with my 4 year old son, I was absolutely miserable. That is when I decided to start researching bypass and sleeve surgery. in February I had my sleeve surgery done. I do not regret my decision. it has been hard work I have definitely had to do some work on my poor eating choices. prior to surgery I worked with not only my nutritionist but my therapist as well. I knew If I did not change my eating habits no form of weight loss surgery would work. Even with this new tool I have I could still eat the bad stuff but I know that it is not going to provide me with the fuel my body needs. Since having my sleeve I am not hungry and I am satisfied with the small portions I eat.

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1 hour ago, ktallon said:

I was like you. I had a band placed in 2007 and removed in 2012. I got to a point that I couldn't even keep liquids down even with no saline in my band. even when it was completely empty I still could not get protein foods in. so I resorted to eating the garbage. After having my band removed I chose not to have another form of weight loss surgery. fast forward to 2016 I ballooned up to my highest weight of 320 pounds, I could hardly walk because of arthritis in my knees, I could not keep up with my 4 year old son, I was absolutely miserable. That is when I decided to start researching bypass and sleeve surgery. in February I had my sleeve surgery done. I do not regret my decision. it has been hard work I have definitely had to do some work on my poor eating choices. prior to surgery I worked with not only my nutritionist but my therapist as well. I knew If I did not change my eating habits no form of weight loss surgery would work. Even with this new tool I have I could still eat the bad stuff but I know that it is not going to provide me with the fuel my body needs. Since having my sleeve I am not hungry and I am satisfied with the small portions I eat.

YOU'VE GOT THIS, K. YOU ROCK!

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Hi Ktallon - thanks for your interesting reply - its so reassuring that you know something of what I'm experiencing, and I really appreciate that.

What is it about the sleeve that made you choose this over a bypass?

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For me the desicion to have sleeve was that i did not want the malabsorption factor that you have with bypass. I have bipolar disorder so after discussing with my surgeon and psychiatrist it was felt that sleeve would be best for me. I highly recommend you talk with your surgeon about both to decide what is best for you 

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