Ketosis?? - ThinnerTimes

Christina · 10-18-2004, 08:42 AM

Ok everyone I have a quick question.. I am 6 months out, down 101 lbs.. and have about 36 to go to MY goal... I have been noticing the last couple weeks very foul smelling urine. I did not have the urine smell initially with the weight loss.. I got the breath and the body odor smell.. but not the urine.. so I am wondering.. is it possible that I am losing weight again and may be in a state of ketosis?? Without being too graphic my urine is darker than usual and has kind of a sulfer smell to it?? No I don't have a urinary tract, kidney or bladder infection either.. so just wondering if it is possible??

MaryClipper · 10-18-2004, 09:28 AM

This is not really a sign of ketosis, however you can pick up some keto-sticks at the pharmacy if you want to check. It is most definately a sign that you are not drinking enough water. If your urine is dark and strong smelling it means that the toxins are concentrated in your urine and there isn't enough water to dilute it. You need to drink more water! This will keep your kidneys healthy as they are working overtime to rid your body of the fat. It will also help avoid a bladder infection. So up your water. Your urine should be almost clear, or light yellow. Vitamins sometimes make it bright yellow, but it should not be dark yellow or brown. Drink, Drink, Drink.

Take care,
Mary

Americanwoman397 · 10-18-2004, 09:33 AM

Christina

Well I noticed that about 10days ago with my urine. I had an app to se my Dr for something else and asked him about it. He told me basicly the same thing that Mary did that I needed to up my water in take. He did a few test and found that I did have a UTI. He says that I need to drink more water to keep that from happening and to make sure I'm going to the water about every 2 to 3 hours a day. I thought that was a lot but it really isn't.

So like Mary said Drink Drink Drink.

I feel like I'm going to float away at times I'm drinking so much water...LOL

Christina · 10-18-2004, 02:58 PM

Thanks for your replies gals.. they made a lot of sense. I have done my full 64oz of water today and am continuing to drink more because I obviously need to flush out my system. Of course I am running to the restroom a lot so it must be working..

onederlandbound · 10-18-2004, 06:59 PM

Hey Christina,

I noticed you said you did have breath and body odor as if it is expected. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Is this something to be expected?

Christina · 10-19-2004, 07:58 AM

Mary,

Yes during the rapid weight loss phase you can have many weird or nasty smells coming out of you. Some smell it in their urine, breath, body odor, or feces. Flatulance is supposed to be pretty nasty too.. but I never had that problem. I think you can have one or all of the above and maybe even more?? Ketosis is when your body is going through a rapid weight loss period and I believe it is the phase when your body is riding itself of all the nasty toxins or something??

I don't really know what causes it but can look it up if ya want me to.

It doesn't last forever but it can be pretty brutal..

onederlandbound · 10-19-2004, 10:51 AM

Thanks for that update Christina. Somehow I must have missed that memo because I never heart it before. I'm glad I know what to expect. I don't mean to keep bothering you about it, but how bad was it??

Was it stay in the house and don't go around anybody bad? or just take an extra shower or two bad?? Should I starting packing soap and mouthwash in my pocketbook??

Ketosis:

The only information I have about ketosis is what I got from being on a low-carb diet. According to Atkins, the state of ketosis is the body burning it's own fat, using the stored fat for energy.

If there is some other explantion, I'm not quite sure what it is.

Thank you again for sharing.

"Knowledge Is Power"

Christina · 10-19-2004, 11:20 AM

Mary,

This is what I could find on the subject. I hope it helps. As far as not going out or whatever.. don't worry about that. For the breath I just brushed my teeth a lot and used a lot of sugar free mints.. The body odor I switched deoderants to the use of Mitchum which is stronger and I used an exfoliating scrub under my arms from Bath & Body works.. it seemed to do the trick.. like I said it only lasts for a very short time.. and it's not that bad.

Don't worry about asking any questions.. they are all very important and relevant.. not bothering anyone.. hope you get some good answers here:

Ketosis & Ketone Test Strips

EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT KETOSIS ...

1. What are ketones?
2. How will ketosis help me to lose weight?
3. But, isn't ketosis dangerous?
4. How do the ketone test strips work, and where do I get them?
5. I'm following Induction strictly; why won't my strips turn purple?
6. Will I lose weight faster if the strips show dark purple all the time?
7. Does caffeine affect ketosis?
8. Will drinking alcohol affect ketosis?

What are ketones?

Ketones are a normal and efficient source of fuel and energy for the human body. They are produced by the liver from fatty acids, which result from the breakdown of body fat in response to the absence of glucose/sugar. In a ketogenic diet, such as Atkins ... or diets used for treating epilepsy in children, the tiny amounts of glucose required for some select functions can be met by consuming a minimum amount of carbs - or can be manufactured in the liver from PROTEIN. When your body is producing ketones, and using them for fuel, this is called "ketosis".

How will ketosis help me to lose weight?

Most reducing diets restrict calorie intake, so you lose weight but some of that is fat and some of it is lean muscle tissue as well. Less muscle means slowed metabolism, which makes losing weight more difficult and gaining it back all too easy. Ketosis will help you to lose FAT.

Being in ketosis means that your body's primary source of energy is fat (in the form of ketones). When you consume adequate protein as well, there's no need for the body to break down its muscle tissue. Ketosis also tends to accelerate fat loss --- once the liver converts fat to ketones, it can't be converted back to fat, and so is excreted.

But, isn't ketosis dangerous?

Being in ketosis by following a low carbohydrate diet is NOT dangerous. The human body was designed to use ketones very efficiently as fuel in the absence of glucose. However, the word ketosis is often confused with a similar word, ketoacidosis.

Ketoacidosis is a dangerous condition for diabetics, and the main element is ACID not ketones. The blood pH becomes dangerously acidic because of an extremely high blood SUGAR level (the diabetic has no insulin, or doesn't respond to insulin .... so blood sugar rises ... ketones are produced by the body to provide the fuel necessary for life, since the cells can't use the sugar). It's the high blood sugar, and the acid condition that is so dangerous. Ketones just happen to be a part of the picture, and are a RESULT of the condition, not the CAUSE. Diabetics can safely follow a ketogenic diet to lose fat weight ... but they must be closely monitored by their health care provider, and blood sugars need to be kept low, and stable.

How do the ketone test strips work, and where can I get them?

Ketone urine-testing strips, also called Ketostix or just ketone sticks ... are small plastic strips that have a little absorptive pad on the end. This contains a special chemical that will change colour in the presence of ketones in the urine. The strips may change varying shades of pink to purple, or may not change colour at all. The container will have a scale on the label, with blocks of colour for you to compare the strip after a certain time lapse, usually 15 seconds. Most folks simply hold a strip in the flow of urine. Other folks argue that the force of the flow can "wash" some of the chemical away, and advise that a sample of urine be obtained in a cup or other container, then the strip dipped into it.

The chemical reagent is very sensitive to moisture, including what's in the air. It's important to keep the lid of the container tightly closed at all times, except for when you're getting a strip to take a reading. Make sure your fingers are dry before you go digging in! They also have an expiry date, so make note of this when you purchase the strips ... that's for the UNopened package. Once opened, they have a shelf-life of about 6 months -- you may wish to write the date you opened on the label for future reference.

Ketone test strips can be purchased at any pharmacy, and are usually kept with the diabetic supplies. In some stores they're kept behind the counter, so if you don't see them on the shelf, just ask the pharmacist; you don't need a prescription to buy them.

I'm following Induction strictly; why won't my strips turn purple?

Ketones will spill into the urine ONLY when there is more in the blood than is being used as fuel by the body at that particular moment.

You may have exercised or worked a few hours previously, so your muscles would have used up the ketones as fuel, thus there will be no excess. You may have had a lot of liquids to drink, so the urine is more diluted. Perhaps the strips are not fresh, or the lid was not on tight and some moisture from the atmosphere got in.

Some low carbers NEVER show above trace or negative even ... yet they burn fat and lose weight just fine. If you're losing weight, and your clothes are getting looser, you're feeling well and not hungry all the time .. then you are successfully in ketosis. Don't get hung up on the strips; they're just a guide, nothing more.

Will I lose weight faster if the strips show dark purple all the time?

No. Testing in the darkest purple range all the time is usually a sign of dehydration -- the urine is too concentrated. You need to drink more water to dilute it, and keep the kidneys flushed.

The liver will make ketones from body fat, the fat you EAT, and from alcohol --- the ketone strips have no way of distinguishing the source of the ketones. So, if you test every day after dinner, and dinner usually contains a lot of fat, then you may very well test for large amounts of ketones all the time. However this does not indicate that any BODY fat was burned.

The strips only indicate what's happening in the urine. Ketosis happens in the blood and body tissues. If you're showing even a small amount, then you are in ketosis, and fat-burning is taking place. Don't get hung up on the ketone sticks.

Does caffeine affect ketosis?

This is questionable. There ARE a few studies that suggest caffeine may cause blood sugar to rise, with consequent effect on insulin ... The studies involve consuming 50 gm glucose orally, followed by a dose of caffeine. This is quite different from a low carber, who is consuming only 20 gm carbs, in the form of high-fiber vegetables, spread throughout the day.

Many low carbers continue to enjoy caffeine-containing beverages with no serious impact on their weight-loss efforts. However, there are some sensitive individuals ... and persons who are extremely insulin resistant may need to restrict or even eliminate all caffeine. If you have been losing successfully then find your weight loss stalled for a month or two, and you are following your program to the letter, you might consider stopping all caffeine for a while, to see if that will get things started again.

Will drinking alcohol affect ketosis?

No and yes. The liver can make ketones out of alcohol, so technically, when you drink you'll continue to produce ketones and so will remain in ketosis. The problem is ... alcohol converts more easily to ketones than fatty acids, so your liver will use the alchol first, in preference to fat. Thus, when you drink, basically your FAT burning is put on hold until all the alcohol is out of your system.

This rapid breakdown of alcohol into ketones and acetaldehyde (the intoxicating by-product) ... tends to put low carbers at risk for quicker intoxication ... especially if no other food is consumed to slow absorption.

RESOURCES

Atkinscenter Official Website ... FAQ page, (select Ketosis)

Ketosis ... from the Low Carb Diet and Exercise List

Ketosis and Lipolysis ... from Low Carb Retreat

Christina · 10-19-2004, 11:40 AM

"Ketosis-Lipolysis is not Ketoacidosis"
Maria C. Linder is on the faculty at California State University
Fullerton, California in the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry.
All quotes are from her textbook; "Nutritional Biochemistry and
Metabolism: with clinical applications", Maria C. Linder. pages
87-109. Chapter Eight: Nutrition and Metabolism of Protein.

There is a difference between starvation, prolonged fasting and
controlled carbohydrate eating. There are similar metabolic mechanisms
at work, but the differences are key to understanding the safety
and efficacy of controlled carbohydrate diets.

"The whole process of muscle protein catabolism and liver
gluconeogenesis is regulated principally by glucocorticosteroids and
glucagon and a relative lack of insulin. Early in fasting glycogen
reserves are depleted, and protein (mainly from muscle) becomes the major
source of carbon for glucose production. Glucose is required in
substantial amounts by blood cells and the central nervous system on a
daily basis. There is also an initiation of ketone body production by
the liver to provide a more water soluble form of fat-derived fuel."

THIS IS WHERE THE CONFUSION BEGINS

"A very similar adaption of protein and energy metabolism
occurs in persons consuming diets very low in carbohydrates, where there
is little or no glycogen reserve. However, in this instance, DIETARY
PROTEIN largely or fully SUBSTITUTES for muscle protein in gluconeogenesis.

NOTE: "DIETARY PROTEIN LARGELY OR FULLY SUBSTITUTES FOR MUSCLE PROTEIN IN GLUCONEOGENESIS."

Even when discussing starvation most critics of lowcarb miss the mentally adept
boat. "The body adapts to starvation and reduces the need for
protein-dependent gluconeogenesis by boosting its production of ketones,
a fuel ALTERNATIVE to glucose for MOST CELLS. Circulating ketones reach
maximum levels after about ten days of fasting and now substitute for
much of the glucose requirement of the central nervous system.
This drastically reduces the need for catabolism of muscle protein."

"With reduced protein catabolism, urinary nitrogen excretion also
declines. And there is a shift from the excretion of urea to a
predominance of ammonia loss. This shift toward ammonia versus urea
parallels the increased production and excretion of keto acids, and
serves to MAINTAIN ACID/BASE BALANCE."

"The overall point is that muscle is a valuable reserve of carbons
that can be used for glucose production when needed. However the body
prevents excessive losses of muscle protein over long periods of fasting
by adapting the central nervous system to utilization of ketone bodies
for fuel."

READ THIS AND WEEP ANTI-LOWCARBERS

"A parallel adaptation in the production and excretion of
ammonium ions by the kidney neutralizes the increased ketone bodies
(principally beta-hydroxybutyric and acetoacetic acids). Without the
latter adaptation, such large productions of keto acids would cause a
severe ketoacidosis, as well as a loss of large quantities of sodium and
potassium ions (accompanying ketones spilled into the urine)."

Therefore, unless one is an insulin dependent diabetic or literally starving
TO DEATH due to a lack of food, there is little or no danger from ketosis which
is not characterized by a simultaneous RISE IN BLOOD GLUCOSE and BLOOD ACIDITY.

Miller-Keane Medical Dictionary, 2000

(ke-to´sis) accumulation in the blood and tissues of large quantities of the "ketone bodies"
KETONE BODIES: beta-hydroxybutyric acid, acetoacetic acid, and acetone. Because the first
two are acids, this results in metabolic "acidosis" ACIDOSIS. Thus, the condition is often referred to
as ketoacidosis. adj., ketot´ic.

When fatty acids are metabolized in the liver, an intermediate, acetylcoenzyme A (acetyl CoA), is
produced. Normally, acetyl CoA is condensed with oxaloacetic acid, a product of carbohydrate metabolism,
to form citric acid. This then enters the tricarboxylic acid cycle, the final common pathway of cellular energy
metabolism.

When oxaloacetate is not present, acetyl CoA is converted by another pathway to ketone bodies. These
compounds cannot be metabolized by the liver and are released into the blood stream. Other tissues, including
muscle, brain, heart, and kidneys, can convert ketone bodies back to acetyl CoA and metabolize them as an
energy source.

In acute starvation or in uncontrolled "diabetes mellitus" DIABETES MELLITUS, there is a great increase
in fatty acid metabolism and impaired or absent carbohydrate metabolism, which results in a greatly increased
production of ketone bodies. This can also occur when the diet is composed almost entirely of fat. The production
of ketone bodies is reduced to the normal low level and the ketoacidosis is reversed when adequate carbohydrate
metabolism is restored.

The patient with ketosis often has a sweet or "fruity" odor to his breath. This is produced by acetone, a ketone
body that is highly volatile and is blown off in small amounts with air expired from the lungs.