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(GB) Nutrition The nutrition forum is dedicated to discussing nutrition related to the gastric bypass surgery.

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Old 08-20-2005, 04:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sUzYzPLaCe
Ok here is the deal for me, I didn't have any sugar cravings after surgery (thank god) but I was craving a shrimp cocktail something terrible and I didn't want to blend it up LOL! I would have wanted to put a gun to my head if I had sugar cravings for 5 weeks. One thing that I haven't experienced is eating until my pouch is full and I want to throw up. But I swear it seems like I can put a lot more than 1-2 oz in it. Anyone else with this experience? I can eat a whole cup of soup and about six crackers (saltines) doesn't that seem like too much food for one sitting? Ok just my 10cents Suzy


Peckdale wrote:

The first few weeks were the hardest. I had food cravings....No I had sugar cravings. I was craving powered sugar covered jelly donuts and I don't even like donuts! I was afraid to put anything made with sugar in my mouth. It took about 4 to 5 wks for the sugar cravings to subside. Now I can walk past the candy/cookie/chips section of the store and not feel deprived.
Soups are liquid and yes you will be able to eat more. My surgeon says liquid run through rather fast. Now I guess where we differ is crackers (saltines) are on my Doctor's list of lifetime foods to avoid.
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Old 08-20-2005, 04:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by glad2beme
I am learning so much. This is a dumb question but what is "dumping"?
Side Effects after WLS

These are some problems that patients may experience that do not fall into the medical category of "complications." Nevertheless they arise as issue that some patients have to deal with, so we aim to provide proactive information.


Dumping Syndrome

One of the key features that helps a patient control calorie intake after Gastric Bypass is the fact that food leaves the tiny stomach pouch only into a section of the small intestine called the jejunum. This pathway for the food is the "Roux-en-Y" part of the full name for the procedure, and it matters because the jejunum is simply not made to handle concentrated calories, especially refined sugar. The effect of this is that if a person consumes sugar after a gastric bypass (such as ice cream, chocolate candy, or a soda) the presence of the sugar in this segment of intestine will create a reaction called dumping syndrome that affects the whole body.

An episode of dumping shows up as palpitations (heart racing), a sweaty and clammy feeling, cramping abdominal pain, diarrhea, and then a feeling of weakness during which the person simply must lay down for an hour or so until it passes. Dumping syndrome is not dangerous, but it feels awful. It is not exactly a side effect, in the sense that works in a beneficial way by steering patients away from that type of food.

Patients with an Adjustable Gastric Band should not have dumping syndrome.


Mineral absorption

The lower part of the stomach and the upper (proximal) part of the small intestine do not participate in the digestion of food after a Gastric Bypass because they are (you guessed it) bypassed. These sections of intestine play an important part in the absorption of some minerals (Iron, Calcium, and to a lesser extent Magnesium) and vitamins (Vitamin B12 and to a lesser extent B6). In our practice, patients who have had a Gastric Bypass need to take Multivitamins with Iron twice each day, and supplemental Calcium three times each day (usually Calcium Citrate), every day for life. Up to 25% of patients also require supplemental B12, which is given as a shot once each month or as a pill taken twice each day. Rarely, patients cannot keep up their Iron stores by oral supplements and they need intravenous Iron therapy.

Although patients with an Adjustable Gastric Band should not experience any problem with mineral absorption, the practical reality is that they can also become profoundly deficient in some of the above nutrients. These deficiencies are probably due to low overall intake of nutrients. We recommend exactly the same supplements for our Band patients as for gastric bypass outlined above.


Lactose intolerance

Lactose ("milk sugar") is a particular type of sugar found in milk and dairy products. Absorption of lactose requires a particular enzyme that is mostly found in the bypassed segment of intestine. So, many of our patients who did well with milk before surgery find that after Gastric Bypass dairy products cause abdominal cramping and flatulence. This can be treated by Lactaid, which is an over-the-counter enzyme supplement. The bowel also tends to adapt over time and this is less of a problem in most patients 6 months after surgery.


Hibernation syndrome

Two or three weeks after Gastric Bypass or Adjustable Gastric Band, the patient's body "figures out" that it is not going to be receiving its accustomed calories for a long time. In about half of our patients this results in what we call the hibernation syndrome, where one's body falls back on its built-in evolutionary response to a low food supply - the person just wants to rest and be as still as possible until the food returns. Energy level drops through the floor, and the patient can become emotionally labile (tearful or irritable). There can also be a component of depression caused by the loss of the previous relationship with food. This syndrome can be unnerving for patients because it comes at a time when they are just beginning to get over the pain and other effects of surgery - they believe they should be feeling better but they just want to curl up and go to sleep. The good news is that this is not a dangerous or unusual thing, and will resolve in about 2 weeks when the body figures out how to use fat as its main energy source.


Hair loss

Most patients notice some increase in hair loss around 3-5 months following surgery. For some patients the amount of hair loss is dramatic - they describe clumps of hair in their brush, hair covering the floor of the shower, etc. This occurs as part of the body's response to sudden calorie and protein deprivation just after surgery. The body puts some of its normal maintenance activities "on hold" until nutrition is coming in again, and the effects take a few months to show up. In fact, nothing actually happens to the hair follicles except that they go "to sleep", and at the time the hair loss is noticed the follicles are probably busy regenerating hair. It is rare for patients to have thinner hair one year after surgery than what they began with. In fact, at 18 months after surgery most patients have fuller and healthier hair because the body's hormone balance has been significantly improved.

Many bariatric surgeons advise their patients to maximize protein intake to prevent or treat hair loss. We agree that the food that the patient eats should focus on protein (don't "waste space" on non-protein calories) but we advise against setting a specific protein goal because of the following:

* The most effective way to increase protein intake is to eat more frequently (in fact, many dieticians erroneously advise bariatric patients to eat 8-10 small meals per day).
* Frequent eating is the only way to "defeat" the calorie restriction of a surgically intact gastric bypass - it is possible to "graze" your way to a calorie intake that will keep you from losing weight.
* The capacity of the pouch and small intestine are so small that patients lose weight no matter how frequently they eat for the first couple of months, but the capacity naturally increases over a period of months so that if bad habits (eating frequently) are established, then long term weight loss will not proceed as far as it could.

We advise patients to eat no more than 3 meals per day (not more) and to concentrate on healthy food - adequate protein intake will come naturally if they comply with these simple rules. We also strongly believe that patients should begin to learn to take eating cues from the little stomach pouch. Therefore, if our patients are not hungry they are advised not to eat, even if they don't eat for a day or two (hydration does remain important).


Excess skin

Unfortunately, the skin that holds all of your fat tissue before the surgery tends not to shrink down as the fat goes away. Most patients are left with large floppy areas of skin, especially on the abdomen, upper arms, thighs, and breasts. Exercise is very important for the patient's overall success, but (to be honest) it is not very effective in causing shrinkage of skin. Actual removal of the skin by plastic surgery is frequently desirable, although most insurance companies view this as cosmetic surgery in the vast majority of patients (we don't share this opinion). Translation: "cosmetic" = insurance won't pay for it. We recommend that our patients wait at least one year following the gastric bypass to undergo surgery for removal of excess skin. This delay is because the skin surgery works best for the long term if it is done when you are at a stable weight - it's disappointing and counterproductive to undergo surgery and then develop more flabby skin as weight loss progresses. Also, the skin may shrink a bit and does not finish shrinking until about 18 months after surgery. We also feel more confident that patients are nutritionally up to surgery when their weight is stable.


Gallstones

Cycles of weight loss and weight gain predispose to formation of gallstones, so many patients who undergo bariatric surgery have already had their gallbladders removed. For patients who still have their gallbladder, we will check it during the operation and if we find stones we will plan to remove it. (If a laparoscopic approach is planned we will check by ultrasound before the surgery.) If the patient's gallbladder is normal we will leave it alone - the rapid weight loss creates increased risk of forming gallstones during the time period after gastric bypass so we will ask you to take Actigall (a bile thinning medicine) for six months after surgery.


Depression and psychological distress

Consider how deeply intertwined food is with many American social functions ranging from weddings to funerals to just "going out." People who undergo bariatric surgery do not function "normally" in these food-oriented situations - they are not able to occupy themselves with food and must learn new ways to occupy themselves socially. Not only do patients face the stress of choosing/implementing new life patterns, they may also mourn the loss of the relationship they had with food. Some patients are addicted to food, and they may be at risk for trading one type of addition for another such as alcohol or gambling when the food addiction can't be satisfied. Some morbidly obese patients have been subject to sexual abuse as children, and the fat serves them as a protective barrier from others.

If any of this issues rings a bell with you, it is definitely in everyone's interest to get your particular issues addressed before taking the leap into WLS.


Marital and Relationship distress

Every interpersonal relationship in which the patient participates will change substantially as the dramatic weight loss occurs. This change will affect all relationships, but the marital relationship is one of the most significant - a very high percentage of WLS patients get divorced within the first two years after weight loss surgery. The patient generally becomes more outgoing and socially involved as weight loss progresses; in some cases the patient desires to leave the marriage and in other cases this creates a crisis in confidence for the spouse. We do not have a solution to this problem, except to strongly encourage patients and their loved ones to consider the upcoming stress before surgery. If the marriage is not a strong one, the couple should engage in marriage counseling before the weight loss surgery. Other interpersonal relationships can experience unexpected changes as well - more than one mother or child of a patient has expressed regret over the loss of the person they knew.

On a more favorable note, the marriage appears likely to survive in most cases where the patient was of normal weight at the time of marriage.
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06-17-05 Lap-ROUX-EN-Y
BMI 41.1 / 21.9 /24
224/219/120 /131 -104 lbs ...... 11 lb Below Goal.... Made Goal on April 21. 10 Months and 4 Days post-op!
consultation/pre-op/current/goal



COFFEE, CHOCOLATE, MEN...SOME THINGS ARE JUST BETTER RICH!



Expect trouble as an inevitable part of life, and when it comes, hold your head high. Look it squarely in the eye, and say, "I will be bigger than you. You cannot defeat me."
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Old 08-20-2005, 07:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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We also strongly believe that patients should begin to learn to take eating cues from the little stomach pouch. Therefore, if our patients are not hungry they are advised not to eat, even if they don't eat for a day or two
If I did this I would never eat. I am never hungy I eat my 3 meals a day just to get in my required protein. Sometimes I have a late afternoon snack usually a protein bar if I know dinner will be late but I have yet to feel hungry. Would doing this put your body into a starvation mode?
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Old 08-20-2005, 07:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Laura@BellaBabies
If I did this I would never eat. I am never hungy I eat my 3 meals a day just to get in my required protein. Sometimes I have a late afternoon snack usually a protein bar if I know dinner will be late but I have yet to feel hungry. Would doing this put your body into a starvation mode?
I would think so but this doctor apparently doesn't agree. Here's what he has to say on his site about it. I see my own surgeon next month and I am going to bring up these comments and get his opinion. I know when I talked with him last month he was concerned that I may not be getting enough protein, I wasn't taking protein drinks. He recommended I find a protein bar and eat that twice a day. He stated that a lack of protein would slow my weight-loss to a crawl.

How much protein should I be eating after Weight Loss Surgery?

We don't set a specific target for protein intake on any particular day. Many WLS programs recommend liquid protein supplements for their patients during the recovery phase after surgery. We disagree with such recommendations for the following reasons:

* Specific daily protein intake is not necessary. The body is able to handle short term starvation without difficulty. Think about it; our bodies evolved in the context of irregular food supply. Our ancestors (not so long ago) frequently went for days or weeks with no food at all. Our bodies carry stores of protein and other nutrients to live on, in addition to the fat stores that we aim to burn. (It is necessary to drink steadily to remain hydrated.)
* Scheduled eating of any kind works against the idea of relearning eating habits to follow the cues from the little stomach. In the long run, almost all WLS patients struggle against too much interest in food, and against lifetime habits of eating on schedule, or for social reasons, or to satisfy stress, etc. We want patients to use this "window of opportunity" in the recovery phase after surgery to relearn eating habits that take signals from the little stomach and allow the patient to comfortably minimize eating for life.

* Protein drinks include calories. More calories lead to less weight loss.
* Adequate protein intake will come naturally with time. For both the gastric bypass and the adjustable gastric band, some hunger will return in due time after surgery. Patients are advised to eat (only if) they are hungry, and if they are hungry then to eat foods that are protein focused. We recommend that patients eat regular food, and not specially processed protein drinks or baby food in most cases.
* Some health professionals are concerned that patients with decreased protein intake with lose lean body mass. This is true. We find that all WLS patients lose some lean body mass during their rapid weight loss phase. We have not observed that protein drinks result in any significant preservation of lean body mass. Either way, patients regain their lean body mass as their weight stabilizes in the long run after surgery. We have been following the system of recommending against artificial protein supplements for almost 10 years and have not observed any ill effects for patients. We are currently in discussions that may permit us to study this question in a scientific way.
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06-17-05 Lap-ROUX-EN-Y
BMI 41.1 / 21.9 /24
224/219/120 /131 -104 lbs ...... 11 lb Below Goal.... Made Goal on April 21. 10 Months and 4 Days post-op!
consultation/pre-op/current/goal



COFFEE, CHOCOLATE, MEN...SOME THINGS ARE JUST BETTER RICH!



Expect trouble as an inevitable part of life, and when it comes, hold your head high. Look it squarely in the eye, and say, "I will be bigger than you. You cannot defeat me."
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Old 08-20-2005, 08:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My Dr does recomend to supplement 2 protein drinks a day( he says carnation with added skim milk powder ,,,yuck). I can not consume the amount of food intake he wants for me at this point. I work on getting in my water between meals. After breakfast I drink 25 oz water same after lunch and dinner it takes me a few hours to get it in. I usually have a RTD shake for breakfast it has 35 grams of protein. So it is not like I am adding additional snacks or having a lot of meals. I prefer the shakes in the morning as my pouch is kinda cranky in the morning lol. It prefers the liquid to the solids early in the day.
I understand what this Dr is saying it does kinda make sence, but I have also read that after surgery it is important for healing to get in protein. I am also worried about hair loss my Dr's surgical nurse told me to make sure I get in my protein and biotin and it will help.
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Old 08-20-2005, 08:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Laura@BellaBabies
My Dr does recomend to supplement 2 protein drinks a day( he says carnation with added skim milk powder ,,,yuck). I can not consume the amount of food intake he wants for me at this point. I work on getting in my water between meals. After breakfast I drink 25 oz water same after lunch and dinner it takes me a few hours to get it in. I usually have a RTD shake for breakfast it has 35 grams of protein. So it is not like I am adding additional snacks or having a lot of meals. I prefer the shakes in the morning as my pouch is kinda cranky in the morning lol. It prefers the liquid to the solids early in the day.
I understand what this Dr is saying it does kinda make sence, but I have also read that after surgery it is important for healing to get in protein. I am also worried about hair loss my Dr's surgical nurse told me to make sure I get in my protein and biotin and it will help.
I can totally relate on the breakfast thing. My new pouch also perfers a protein drink in the am. I've tried eggs made different ways and my pouch gets very cranky over it. Any solid food makes me feel ill and that is a carry over from pre-op days. I never could eat breakfast.

The hair loss thing is something my doctor address also last month and said the same as yours. If I don't get in enough protein I am going to lose my hair.

You and I had our surgery just days apart. I think it's going to be rather interesting to follow the other's progress.

Stay in touch and let's compare notes from time to time.
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06-17-05 Lap-ROUX-EN-Y
BMI 41.1 / 21.9 /24
224/219/120 /131 -104 lbs ...... 11 lb Below Goal.... Made Goal on April 21. 10 Months and 4 Days post-op!
consultation/pre-op/current/goal



COFFEE, CHOCOLATE, MEN...SOME THINGS ARE JUST BETTER RICH!



Expect trouble as an inevitable part of life, and when it comes, hold your head high. Look it squarely in the eye, and say, "I will be bigger than you. You cannot defeat me."
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Old 08-20-2005, 11:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Thanks for all of the information. It is going to be very helpful in my pre-op and post-op. I will talk to my Dr. and ask some questions also to see what his oppinion is on the whole situation. I am going for my educational meeting (1st one), on Tuesday. I am very anxious and excited about going. I have a lot of questions and am really looking forward to learning more about it. I'll let you all know how it goes.
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Old 08-21-2005, 04:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Peckkale
I can totally relate on the breakfast thing. My new pouch also perfers a protein drink in the am. I've tried eggs made different ways and my pouch gets very cranky over it. Any solid food makes me feel ill and that is a carry over from pre-op days. I never could eat breakfast.

The hair loss thing is something my doctor address also last month and said the same as yours. If I don't get in enough protein I am going to lose my hair.

You and I had our surgery just days apart. I think it's going to be rather interesting to follow the other's progress.

Stay in touch and let's compare notes from time to time.
That sounds great I did not realize we are 3 days apart! Sometimes I wish I was on the other side of the country with everyone as I feel so lonely on the east coast lol.
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Old 09-07-2005, 01:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Peckkale
I would think so but this doctor apparently doesn't agree. Here's what he has to say on his site about it. I see my own surgeon next month and I am going to bring up these comments and get his opinion. I know when I talked with him last month he was concerned that I may not be getting enough protein, I wasn't taking protein drinks. He recommended I find a protein bar and eat that twice a day. He stated that a lack of protein would slow my weight-loss to a crawl.

How much protein should I be eating after Weight Loss Surgery?

We don't set a specific target for protein intake on any particular day. Many WLS programs recommend liquid protein supplements for their patients during the recovery phase after surgery. We disagree with such recommendations for the following reasons:

* Specific daily protein intake is not necessary. The body is able to handle short term starvation without difficulty. Think about it; our bodies evolved in the context of irregular food supply. Our ancestors (not so long ago) frequently went for days or weeks with no food at all. Our bodies carry stores of protein and other nutrients to live on, in addition to the fat stores that we aim to burn. (It is necessary to drink steadily to remain hydrated.)
* Scheduled eating of any kind works against the idea of relearning eating habits to follow the cues from the little stomach. In the long run, almost all WLS patients struggle against too much interest in food, and against lifetime habits of eating on schedule, or for social reasons, or to satisfy stress, etc. We want patients to use this "window of opportunity" in the recovery phase after surgery to relearn eating habits that take signals from the little stomach and allow the patient to comfortably minimize eating for life.

* Protein drinks include calories. More calories lead to less weight loss.
* Adequate protein intake will come naturally with time. For both the gastric bypass and the adjustable gastric band, some hunger will return in due time after surgery. Patients are advised to eat (only if) they are hungry, and if they are hungry then to eat foods that are protein focused. We recommend that patients eat regular food, and not specially processed protein drinks or baby food in most cases.
* Some health professionals are concerned that patients with decreased protein intake with lose lean body mass. This is true. We find that all WLS patients lose some lean body mass during their rapid weight loss phase. We have not observed that protein drinks result in any significant preservation of lean body mass. Either way, patients regain their lean body mass as their weight stabilizes in the long run after surgery. We have been following the system of recommending against artificial protein supplements for almost 10 years and have not observed any ill effects for patients. We are currently in discussions that may permit us to study this question in a scientific way.
Just my opinion, but I think you take too much protein, and I think you have slow weight loss because of it. Avoid crackers for life? LMFAO, I live on crackers and chili. Dr. Callery so doesnt deprive us and has the most successful rate of any surgeon I have researched. In fact Dr. Callery has an average of 100 pound weight loss where most others have only 75 pounds. I say stick to the pouch rules for dummies instead of trying to make your own program. Good luck! 80 grams of protein, man I would blow up like a big fat barn, oops, that is what I was, and I can't allow myself to be that again. I would rather have a sugary fruit pop than 80 grams of protein. I lost most of my weight the first three months. Without supplementing.
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:26 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Thanks for the spreadsheet.

I got it to load with my speadsheet file, but could not get it sized right so that i can use it. I am computer dummy, Have use since 94 but am highly stupid on this pc. Thanks, Linda
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