Is all protein created equal? - Page 5 - ThinnerTimes

MiladyB · 06-27-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyNicole

Guess what I did??? At the hospital a dietitian came around (not the same NUT I went to) and also told me about the New whey bullets. I told her they are not the best protein out there. I told her about the research and the low numbers (I couldn't remember the letters ada, cdc, you get the point). I told her that two salesmen at Vitamin shoppe did not recommend them and she was pretty shocked, yet open to the information. She said she was going to research that. I felt cool b/c I knew more that she did! LOLOL

Good for you, Nicole!!

Keep educating people out there!!

BabyNicole · 09-16-2008, 02:11 PM

Okay, so I just read up on this. The highest score is a 1.0. So, the liquid protein isn't as bad as I thought if it's close to zero. You just may need more of it, i.e. wheat has .4 (Whole wheat has a PDCAAS of 0.40. This means that it would take about 125 grams of protein from whole wheat to supply the amounts of all the indispensable amino acids provided by 50 grams of this isolated soy protein). I was thinking the liquid was about zero out of 100! So for those who can't tolerate shakes, at least you're getting some from the liquid.

PS. This coming from someone who can't tolerate anything.

supplements.net · 09-17-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiladyB

I sent an email off to the nutritionist in my surgeon's office yesterday. I wanted to ask her about these 3 oz protein vials so many seem to be taking after surgery. I was curious what she thought of them and if it was the kind of protein we should be using after surgery. She quickly got back to me with an explaination about protein. I just thought I would share it with all of you. I know this is a pretty technical explaination but I thought some of you might like to know what kind of protein is best for us when it comes to protein supplements.

Here is her email response:

Not all protein has the same value to your body. The amino acid profile
is the reason for this. Proteins are made of amino acids. There are 20
different ones in the human body. Of the twenty, 9 of them must be
consumed to meet your daily needs. These 9 amino acids are called
Essential (EAA) or Indispensable.

The 9 EAAs are needed in certain proportions. A protein scoring system
called Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Scoring (or PDCAAS)
was developed to show which products contain all the EAA and in the
correct proportions. It is supported by the FDA, the World Health
Organization, and perhaps most importantly, the Institute of Medicine at
the National Academy of Sciences. The highest possible score is 100.

-- Collagen Protein gets a 0 (the lowest possible score)
-- Whey Protein Isolate gets 100 (the highest possible score)

Some proteins such as COLLAGEN or HYDROLYZED COLLAGEN protein are
missing one of the EAAs entirely. So the PDCAAS for collagen is zero.
Collagen is often the main ingredient in protein supplements that come
in a liquid form, and they usually have lower PDCAAS scores.

Here are some collagen products that have lower PDCAAS scores:

New Whey and Profect1: These products appear to have a PDCAAS score of
5 or 6 out of 100. Lab analyses of several samples suggest that about
94% of their protein, by weight, is from collagen.

Proteinex2: The Proteinex OTC products appear to get protein only from
hydrolyzed collagen, so their PDCAAS score is 0 or virtually 0.

Pro-Stat 64 / Pro-Stat 1013: These products appear to have a PDCAAS
score of about 37 out of 100.

The BEST products to purchase are products made from whey protein
ISOLATE (not concentrate) and soy protein ISOLATE.

I read what your Dr. said and I agree. I would not base my protein requirements on a Bullet of Hydrolyzed collagen protein. but reading more into this type of protein and the PDCAAS method of scoring protein has got me thinking that it might not be so bad. here are the links that I read deeper into about this subject.
Hydrolyzed collagen (hydrolysate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
it seemed like the collagen may help arthritis and it did not say this but I surmised it from what I read, it may fight skin aging. this does not change my mind on if I will use it or not but was something interesting to think about. if I had a joint injury maybe I would put some hydrolyzed collagen in my supplement regimen, dont think it would hurt.
PDCAAS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
seems like the system might be a little flawed. "because in 1990 at a FAO/WHO meeting it was decided that proteins having values higher than 1.0 would be rounded or "leveled down" to 1.0 as scores above 1.0 are considered to indicate that the protein contains essential amino acids in excess of the human requirements.[10] This approach implies injustice to high-quality proteins which can compensate for low-quality ones by virtue of their high content of essential amino acids (egg has an actual PDCAA score of 1.19 compared to 0.91 for soy, however when leveled down, they appear much closer)."

supplements.net · 09-17-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyNicole

Okay, so I just read up on this. The highest score is a 1.0. So, the liquid protein isn't as bad as I thought if it's close to zero. You just may need more of it, i.e. wheat has .4 (Whole wheat has a PDCAAS of 0.40. This means that it would take about 125 grams of protein from whole wheat to supply the amounts of all the indispensable amino acids provided by 50 grams of this isolated soy protein). I was thinking the liquid was about zero out of 100! So for those who can't tolerate shakes, at least you're getting some from the liquid.

PS. This coming from someone who can't tolerate anything.

Your thought seems correct but if a protein source was missing one essential amino acid then it wouldn't matter how much you used you wouldn't get that amino.

MiladyB · 09-17-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyNicole

Okay, so I just read up on this. The highest score is a 1.0. So, the liquid protein isn't as bad as I thought if it's close to zero. You just may need more of it, i.e. wheat has .4 (Whole wheat has a PDCAAS of 0.40. This means that it would take about 125 grams of protein from whole wheat to supply the amounts of all the indispensable amino acids provided by 50 grams of this isolated soy protein). I was thinking the liquid was about zero out of 100! So for those who can't tolerate shakes, at least you're getting some from the liquid.

PS. This coming from someone who can't tolerate anything.

Nicole, it can be rather confusing but the score of the bullets is .04-.05 out of 1.0. So it is rather low. You will find it listed 2 different ways. The other is 4-5 out of 100. These scores are the scores of the amount of the essential amino acids different proteins have. All the essential amino acids may be present in the bullets but they are in the wrong proportions. Our bodies need all the essential amino acids in the right proportion. If it doesn't get it from our foods it will get it from our muscles. Now the score isn't quite as big of a deal if the bullets are only part of our protein intake. Hopefully the other sources of proteins that we are eating will provide us with the additional amounts of amino acids that our bodies need. The danger more is, when we are early out and not eating other foods or a really limited supply you run the risk of not getting what you need. Using 100% whey or soy isolate will eliminate that risk. From my understanding if you are eating 500 calories from regular food sources the score of a product isn't such a big deal. But if you aren't? You can do damage to your muscles including your heart.

If you speak to a vegetarian who really understands the idea of amino acids, they will explain how important it is to get their protein from several different sources. The reason it is important is because things like wheat don't have all the essential amino acids present or if they are, there isn't enough. So basicly vegetarians have to add food with additional amino acids to add in to make it "complete". Think of it as a bunch of grapes that is missing several grapes. It isn't a complete bunch. Now if you take grapes from somewhere else and add them to the bunch, the bunch will be complete. Make sense?

BTW, I was corresponding with a bariatric nutritionist in regards to these protein bullets. Because of our discussion she wrote one of the companies asking to see the amino acid profile for their product. She never heard back from them. I can't help but think if they were as complete as they claim they are they would have been willing to share the proof of their claims. Apparently they weren't. Just something to think about.

MiladyB · 09-17-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supplements.net

Your thought seems correct but if a protein source was missing one essential amino acid then it wouldn't matter how much you used you wouldn't get that amino.

You are exactly right!

supplements.net · 09-17-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiladyB

Nicole, it can be rather confusing but the score of the bullets is .04-.05 out of 1.0. So it is rather low. You will find it listed 2 different ways. The other is 4-5 out of 100. These scores are the scores of the amount of the essential amino acids different proteins have. All the essential amino acids may be present in the bullets but they are in the wrong proportions. Our bodies need all the essential amino acids in the right proportion. If it doesn't get it from our foods it will get it from our muscles. Now the score isn't quite as big of a deal if the bullets are only part of our protein intake. Hopefully the other sources of proteins that we are eating will provide us with the additional amounts of amino acids that our bodies need. The danger more is, when we are early out and not eating other foods or a really limited supply you run the risk of not getting what you need. Using 100% whey or soy isolate will eliminate that risk. From my understanding if you are eating 500 calories from regular food sources the score of a product isn't such a big deal. But if you aren't? You can do damage to your muscles including your heart.

If you speak to a vegetarian who really understands the idea of amino acids, they will explain how important it is to get their protein from several different sources. The reason it is important is because things like wheat don't have all the essential amino acids present or if they are, there isn't enough. So basicly vegetarians have to add food with additional amino acids to add in to make it "complete". Think of it as a bunch of grapes that is missing several grapes. It isn't a complete bunch. Now if you take grapes from somewhere else and add them to the bunch, the bunch will be complete. Make sense?

BTW, I was corresponding with a bariatric nutritionist in regards to these protein bullets. Because of our discussion she wrote one of the companies asking to see the amino acid profile for their product. She never heard back from them. I can't help but think if they were as complete as they claim they are they would have been willing to share the proof of their claims. Apparently they weren't. Just something to think about.

the truth of the matter is that the manufacturers probably do not know. most of them do not do enough R&D to know much more than us.